Discussions

I noticed something pretty alarming today. It seems the city of Brandon awarded a contract for underground work to EF moon out of Portage for $558,630.42 more then Allen and Bolack the low bidder.  
 
The way I read into this is every man, woman and child in Brandon just had $11 taken from them.  
 
I hope there is an extremely good reason for this. Paying 23% more for the same work is not a wise use of our money.

I haven’t read the tender but they usually end with “lowest tender not necessarily accepted”

a lot of factors that are considered when awarding a tender besides cost.

bean said "I noticed something pretty alarming today. It seems the city of Brandon awarded a contract for underground work to EF moon out of Portage for $558,630.42 more then Allen and Bolack the low bidder.     The way I read into this is every man, woman and child in Brandon just had $11 taken from them.     I hope there is an extremely good reason for this. Paying 23% more for the same work is not a wise use of our money. "

What does giving half a million to Allen Bollack or not have to do with me or anyone else in Brandon?

MrDobalina said "    bean said "I noticed something pretty alarming today. It seems the city of Brandon awarded a contract for underground work to EF moon out of Portage for $558,630.42 more then Allen and Bolack the low bidder.     The way I read into this is every man, woman and child in Brandon just had $11 taken from them.     I hope there is an extremely good reason for this. Paying 23% more for the same work is not a wise use of our money. " What does giving half a million to Allen Bollack or not have to do with me or anyone else in Brandon? "

The difference in the bids was over a 1/2 million. Your taxes go towards paying for the work that's how it effects you.

to consider when awarding contracts are safety,quality, and schedule. Not always cost.

Cheaper doesn''t mean better! If Allen and Bolack got started with the job and they realised it''s going to cost more money in the end then city would be in the same boat.  
 
Also if Allen and Bolack didn''t do the job correctly then the city will have to hire someone else to do it correctly.  
 
Most of the time, someone that tenders low at the start will never keep that promise.  
 
Also reputation matters.  
 
Edited by Getty, 2018-05-01 19:05:52

I guess you are not familiar with the concept of a Bonded tender. The contractor cannot just bail out of doing the job.

allan and bollack , combined with c and c has extensive experience and are local people , the reason why the higher bid from out of town firm was accepted needs to be stated by the city . everyone in brandon has skin in this .

From experience, here are some reasons you don't go with a bid based on price alone...  
 
1.) You've done work for the customer in the past and dropped the ball, or had massive cost over runs and someone else has also had previous dealing with the customer and always did a good job. This has happened to me before when I was starting out.  
 
2.) You're a better contractor and the customer sees value in the premium charged. This happens with us all the time. We actually just recently had another contractor approach one of our major contracts and offer to do the work at a 50% discount. The customer just rolled their eyes and declined, sometimes when a bid is TOO low its obvious to the customer that it's only going to result in massive cost increases down the road because once a project is underway you can't really change contractors midstream...and when you do see something like that happen you can bet the previous contractor made a massive mess.  
 
3.) You have more resources/infrastructure in place and can do more under one umbrella. Maybe an electrical contractor comes in cheaper, and a plumber comes in cheaper but an electrical/plumbing company comes in 20% higher you'll likely go with the higher bid because it will almost always save you that 20% in administrative and management cost..dealing with one guy is always easier than dealing with 2  
 
4.) Most contracts have "incidentals" included..so for example...anything required of you not outlined specifically in the contract like overtime, weekend work, installations not foreseen in the original plans. This is done to help avoid contractors favorite cash stream "COST PLUS"...come in low and everything that isn't specifically laid out in the contract is done at 300% mark up. If I looked at that portion of the contract and saw that the lower bid was going to significantly increase their costs if anything new comes up I'd go with the higher bid if they offered more stability in the case of change.  
 
To be honest, when I ask for RFP's (bids) I usually look at price last...I know (and the city knows) what something should roughly cost and I know what it can't be done for.

Whoever decided the contract maybe had more than coin in their minds. Past experiences with them on Bollock may have kicked in. If this is just ground work it may evolve more than one contractor for a series of related jobs some big contractors are known to juggle jobs and equipment and men and it does not always work . IF I was the city I would rather charge late fees to a one job outside contractor if one is needed than a local guy where cost recovery would be in mind(fine). If quality is equal this contract size difference is a concern but we need to trust the city here.

Mr. Bean I sent you a message.

bean said "I noticed something pretty alarming today. It seems the city of Brandon awarded a contract for underground work to EF moon out of Portage for $558,630.42 more then Allen and Bolack the low bidder.     The way I read into this is every man, woman and child in Brandon just had $11 taken from them.     I hope there is an extremely good reason for this. Paying 23% more for the same work is not a wise use of our money. "

can view the tender and associated documents relating to this on the City website under tenders. Have a read through the fine print, all 89 pages if you wish to familiarize yourself with what is involved in a tender submission!

I've experienced some tender openings, and sometimes the lowest bid left out very key components or requirements of the job. In this case, it may be subsurface soil investigations, environmental assessments, hiring additional consultants (i.e. engineers) etc. The lowest bid does not always mean it will be cheaper in the end. The lowest bid may have hung a lot of additional charges on the city. The awarded bid may actually end up saving the city in the long run.

mackenzie5 said "allan and bollack , combined with c and c has extensive experience and are local people , the reason why the higher bid from out of town firm was accepted needs to be stated by the city . everyone in brandon has skin in this . "

 
 
Edited by PrimeConvoy, 2018-05-02 13:58:19

bean said "I guess you are not familiar with the concept of a Bonded tender. The contractor cannot just bail out of doing the job. "

Maybe that's also why there are no drugs in Brandon...because they are illegal.  
 
Seriously, contractors have been known to have their bonds pulled for poor work.

Who did the roadworks at 34th and Victoria that took forever and still remains unfinished? Maybe that and past works played into the City's decision of contractors for future works?

Dan Forsythe said "Who did the roadworks at 34th and Victoria that took forever and still remains unfinished? Maybe that and past works played into the City's decision of contractors for future works? "

Zenith Paving did the roadwork and Allen & Bolack did the sewer and water work on that job, but that was a provincial job, not city one.  
 
Has anyone whose concerned thought of contacting the city or their city councillor for an explanation?

The_Young_Man said "    Dan Forsythe said "Who did the roadworks at 34th and Victoria that took forever and still remains unfinished? Maybe that and past works played into the City's decision of contractors for future works? " Zenith Paving did the roadwork and Allen & Bolack did the sewer and water work on that job, but that was a provincial job, not city one.     Has anyone whose concerned thought of contacting the city or their city councillor for an explanation? "

I think instead of the city getting emails from any # of people interested, why can't they just share the information here. That way everyone would have the information and the city wouldn't have to use valuable manpower (resident's money) multiple times. One full explanation here on eBrandon would be great.

One of the biggest ones I think was missed is when looking at a quote even if your a homeowner getting a job done is making sure it's apples to apples. Ex if your getting a hot water tank and one guy gives you a price of 600 dollars but you get a made in China with 3 years warranty. or a guy gives you a price of 800 dollars and you get a made in canada/usa with 8 years warranty. All of a sudden 600 dollars just costed you 1200 dollars in the long run because you had to essentially put in 2 tanks by the time of 1 at 800 dollars.

The Tenderer, when an institution with engineering capability such as City of Brandon or Province of Manitoba, will have prepared an in-house estimate of the cost to have the project completed to their specifications. Not what they would expect the cost to be if they did it themselves, if they could, but what they reasonably expect. If Tenderees come in with quotes radically different, either above or especially below the in-house expectations, then those tenders automatically become suspect. Nobody expects work to be done at a loss.

the brandon quote could be a lot lower due to the fact that they didnt have to put people up in rooms, meal allowance things like that also maybe they are slow and were trying to guarantee work for there guys to keep the trained people they have. That doesnt mean one should use them just because they had the lower tender maybe the city has used the company in portage in the past a it seemed reasonable for the quality of the work they would be getting