Discussions

don brown said "I'm not familiar with this site or how it has been prepared for making ice, but when Trevor mentioned flooding with a truck, some problems came to mind. Given the size of something like this trying to flood with a truck would likely be very time consuming, and one would be surprised the amount of water needed just to seal ground up. If this site is close to the river a better option might be flooding with river water to get a base, but that would only work if the site is close to level and has burms on either side to contain the water. Flooding with a high volume pump can cause a few problems with erosion even on frozen ground, but there are ways to get around this.     I guess the reason people are upset is that the kids only get a limited time of for holidays and this Christmas break the weather hasn't been that bad. Nobody ever gets things completely right when dealing with Mother Nature but maybe there are lessons to be learned from this year.     Hope I don't seem to be coming across as a smart **s, but at times things do have to be attacked in a different way, the flooding using the truck seems to have it's problem when a person puts a time factor in.     Edited by don brown, 2016-01-02 16:01:54"

a fair distance from the river. It's on the southside of the dikes. Even when it was close to the river, using river water alone would be even more time consuming. You then have to drag the hose all around and have a very long hose. You just do't have an oval, but a long winding ice trail around trees, displays, ball diamonds.  
 
There is no easy way to flood that ice. And this weather doesn't make it any quicker either. And now having many people skating on unfinished ice when it's -2c doesn't help either.  
 
People also need to realize all of these things as well. Those that live here know the weather that we've had so far this winter, a mild winter. Apparently rough ice with patches all over means it's safe to skate on.  
 
I would like to hear from those who volunteer to flood the ice at the community centres about skating on ice before it's ready. I'm sure they would appreciate people staying off the ice till it's done.

Dave B said "Says let's take the kids skating this morning .. Damn yeah ! Grab the skates and out the door . There's bout 40 peeps there and no sign . So who's the wiser ?? I just took a rip all way back across town to see even more of a crowd and double check .. there is a closed due to maintenance sign on north entrance tho no one parks over there nothing on South . Sorry City I will keep my family off till you finish it up now but kids had a blast regardless .. Sweet day for it !! I do know how to make ice cubes as well as T man here can copy/paste and I'd say the ice is close . "

the ice is rough and patchy, then it's not close to being done. Had you read through this thread you would of seen that it was not open or ready. If the weather stayed as cold as a freezer, then yes it's easy to make ice cubes.  
 
That ice is probably a mess now!

When we went there were no signs whatsoever saying it was closed. The ice on the paths were rough but the oval itself seemed in pretty decent shape. There were tons of marks from others who had previously used it. Until reading this post after the fact there was no indication that it was closed other than the warming shack being locked.  
 
I fail to see the excuse about the warm weather as the excuse for it not being finished. Why aren't they out there flooding it then? It's cold enough.  
 
Last year when we were out skating someone was flooding a section of the ice with a hose on a truck, not sure if that is how they always do it.  
 
I get it, it's not high on the city's priority list at Christmas, people are away and on holidays. They don't want to pay staff big bucks on stat holidays to be out there flooding it. Bottom line though if the city truly wants people to stay off they need signs there stating so.

Trevor B said "    don brown said "I'm not familiar with this site or how it has been prepared for making ice, but when Trevor mentioned flooding with a truck, some problems came to mind. Given the size of something like this trying to flood with a truck would likely be very time consuming, and one would be surprised the amount of water needed just to seal ground up. If this site is close to the river a better option might be flooding with river water to get a base, but that would only work if the site is close to level and has burms on either side to contain the water. Flooding with a high volume pump can cause a few problems with erosion even on frozen ground, but there are ways to get around this.     I guess the reason people are upset is that the kids only get a limited time of for holidays and this Christmas break the weather hasn't been that bad. Nobody ever gets things completely right when dealing with Mother Nature but maybe there are lessons to be learned from this year.     Hope I don't seem to be coming across as a smart **s, but at times things do have to be attacked in a different way, the flooding using the truck seems to have it's problem when a person puts a time factor in.     Edited by don brown, 2016-01-02 16:01:54" a fair distance from the river. It's on the southside of the dikes. Even when it was close to the river, using river water alone would be even more time consuming. You then have to drag the hose all around and have a very long hose. You just do't have an oval, but a long winding ice trail around trees, displays, ball diamonds.     There is no easy way to flood that ice. And this weather doesn't make it any quicker either. And now having many people skating on unfinished ice when it's -2c doesn't help either.     People also need to realize all of these things as well. Those that live here know the weather that we've had so far this winter, a mild winter. Apparently rough ice with patches all over means it's safe to skate on.     I would like to hear from those who volunteer to flood the ice at the community centres about skating on ice before it's ready. I'm sure they would appreciate people staying off the ice till it's done. "

I do not think there has been a drop of water go on the oval in the last week. Even with over night temp. down to -25. If they do not want to get it ready they may as well take down the Christmas lights. Season is too short to miss it. Over night temps. have been great. If it takes so long Tevor B down scale or find a better way but quit defending the city.

lovemygirl said "When we went there were no signs whatsoever saying it was closed. The ice on the paths were rough but the oval itself seemed in pretty decent shape. There were tons of marks from others who had previously used it. Until reading this post after the fact there was no indication that it was closed other than the warming shack being locked.     I fail to see the excuse about the warm weather as the excuse for it not being finished. Why aren't they out there flooding it then? It's cold enough.     Last year when we were out skating someone was flooding a section of the ice with a hose on a truck, not sure if that is how they always do it.     I get it, it's not high on the city's priority list at Christmas, people are away and on holidays. They don't want to pay staff big bucks on stat holidays to be out there flooding it. Bottom line though if the city truly wants people to stay off they need signs there stating so. "

think -2c is cold enough? Snow was melting yesterday and today. The only cold spell that we've had was last week for a few days. They have been out at night on the nights it's cold enough. You likely never had to make outdoor ice on the scale of the oval and paths.  
 
Last year, Nov and Dec. were a lot colder. And yes, to get the initial layers on, they use a hose and truck. So just think of how long it would take to do all of that ice!! Then when the water tank is empty, it takes time to refill it.  
 
The rough ice and the closed warming huts should of been a clue that it was not ready or open.

delyla said "    Trevor B said "    don brown said "I'm not familiar with this site or how it has been prepared for making ice, but when Trevor mentioned flooding with a truck, some problems came to mind. Given the size of something like this trying to flood with a truck would likely be very time consuming, and one would be surprised the amount of water needed just to seal ground up. If this site is close to the river a better option might be flooding with river water to get a base, but that would only work if the site is close to level and has burms on either side to contain the water. Flooding with a high volume pump can cause a few problems with erosion even on frozen ground, but there are ways to get around this.     I guess the reason people are upset is that the kids only get a limited time of for holidays and this Christmas break the weather hasn't been that bad. Nobody ever gets things completely right when dealing with Mother Nature but maybe there are lessons to be learned from this year.     Hope I don't seem to be coming across as a smart **s, but at times things do have to be attacked in a different way, the flooding using the truck seems to have it's problem when a person puts a time factor in.     Edited by don brown, 2016-01-02 16:01:54" a fair distance from the river. It's on the southside of the dikes. Even when it was close to the river, using river water alone would be even more time consuming. You then have to drag the hose all around and have a very long hose. You just do't have an oval, but a long winding ice trail around trees, displays, ball diamonds.     There is no easy way to flood that ice. And this weather doesn't make it any quicker either. And now having many people skating on unfinished ice when it's -2c doesn't help either.     People also need to realize all of these things as well. Those that live here know the weather that we've had so far this winter, a mild winter. Apparently rough ice with patches all over means it's safe to skate on.     I would like to hear from those who volunteer to flood the ice at the community centres about skating on ice before it's ready. I'm sure they would appreciate people staying off the ice till it's done. " I do not think there has been a drop of water go on the oval in the last week. Even with over night temp. down to -25. If they do not want to get it ready they may as well take down the Christmas lights. Season is too short to miss it. Over night temps. have been great. If it takes so long Tevor B down scale or find a better way but quit defending the city. "

proof do you have that they did not put a drop of water on that ice? I know that the guys were out there at night flooding it last week.  
 

Thanks for the reply. I can see using the truck when they have to deal with the situation of not having a level site, so I'm thinking they are flooding with a boom, which does require a lot of trips over to get a build up of ice. Is this oval near the same size as the previous one and is there much manpower commuted to the job.  
The city does have access to equipment and manpower throughout the year, and I'm sort of convinced that the idea of a skating oval is a good idea, I guess if the city feels it is a good idea, maybe the site as well as preparation to get it up and going should be looked at so that things can or could be done to make it easier. At times I approach things with a "get her done" attitude and wish that at times government would adopt a similar attitude. I'm not saying this as a swipe against the workers, but maybe againt those in charge. If the city wants to have a winter skating area then they should put the resources forward and get her done.

Who would have thought in early January this would be a hot topic on eBrandon? I can see both sides of the problem here, as I have made natural ice for two sheets of curling and it's a slow, long process. Here, we are talking much more ice over a greater distance without the convenience of running water and a hose. Generally, the weather this winter has not been ideal for making ice either. City staff maybe only work on this during normal 8-5 hours, although Trevor has said they have been flooding at night/evening. It's too bad some can't help and volunteer to make the ice, I would, but live an hour away! Also, too bad more than one truck isn't used to help speed up this process! Not sure about wrecking the ice if skated on before it "ready", but I am not a professional ice make by any means. Relax people, breath and enjoy what facilities there is and the wonderful weather. In a week or so predictions are for lows of -20, which will help make ice faster, but sadly the holiday season will be done, but there is still weekends!  
 
Edited by thecdnmole, 2016-01-02 17:36:40

don brown said "Thanks for the reply. I can see using the truck when they have to deal with the situation of not having a level site, so I'm thinking they are flooding with a boom, which does require a lot of trips over to get a build up of ice. Is this oval near the same size as the previous one and is there much manpower commuted to the job.   The city does have access to equipment and manpower throughout the year, and I'm sort of convinced that the idea of a skating oval is a good idea, I guess if the city feels it is a good idea, maybe the site as well as preparation to get it up and going should be looked at so that things can or could be done to make it easier. At times I approach things with a "get her done" attitude and wish that at times government would adopt a similar attitude. I'm not saying this as a swipe against the workers, but maybe againt those in charge. If the city wants to have a winter skating area then they should put the resources forward and get her done. "

I think they have 2 guys, one in truck and one on the hose. They have it graded with a grader, so it is fairly level. If the weather was a constant cold in November and December like last year, the oval would be done already.  
 
Wish it was that easy Don! I don't think it's a very big budget for making the ice.  
 
Edited by Trevor B, 2016-01-02 17:58:57

thecdnmole said "Who would have thought in early January this would be a hot topic on eBrandon? I can see both sides of the problem here, as I have made natural ice for two sheets of curling and it's a slow, long process. Here, we are talking much more ice over a greater distance without the convenience of running water and a hose. Generally, the weather this winter has not been ideal for making ice either. City staff maybe only work on this during normal 8-5 hours, although Trevor has said they have been flooding at night/evening. It's too bad some can't help and volunteer to make the ice, I would, but live an hour away! Also, too bad more than one truck isn't used to help speed up this process! Not sure about wrecking the ice if skated on before it "ready", but I am not a professional ice make by any means. Relax people, breath and enjoy what facilities there is and the wonderful weather. In a week or so predictions are for lows of -20, which will help make ice faster, but sadly the holiday season will be done, but there is still weekends!     Edited by thecdnmole, 2016-01-02 17:36:40"

is that I don't think anyone on here has made ice in the scale of the oval and paths. They don't understand all that goes into it and the challenges. When the weather is ideal, that oval would be all done and open. But when you have mild and inconsistent temperatures, ice making is tougher.  
 
I've made outdoor natural ice and helped with curling ice in Douglas. I also flooded the skating ice in Douglas many times. And I'm going on that experience as well. In Douglas, today they got the lines painted on the curling ice. The outdoor ice was iffy for Christmas.

The sun is not high enough in the sky to do any damage to the ice -2 in march is a lot different than -2 on jan 2 they should be putting water to it every day  
 
Whats the point of even building it if its only going to be open for a little more than 30 days??? The ice on the oval is thick enough now to be on it why not make use of it

Someone should tell all the people who are down there skating on it. The lights and music are on so it might be helpful to put up a sign or two.  
 
With melting temperatures, it makes no sense to pay workers on a weekend to try to flood the oval...especially since the oval looks fairly occupied.

memo99 said "The sun is not high enough in the sky to do any damage to the ice -2 in march is a lot different than -2 on jan 2 they should be putting water to it every day     Whats the point of even building it if its only going to be open for a little more than 30 days??? The ice on the oval is thick enough now to be on it why not make use of it "

was sure melting the snow today. I'm pretty sure it softened the ice, then add on everyone who skated on it today. If weather isn't an excuse, then why did the other outdoor rinks only open last week? Also they have a lot less ice to put in. All rinks are delayed in opening.  
 
People would then complain if it wasn't made or was reduced in size.

Hackeda said "Someone should tell all the people who are down there skating on it. The lights and music are on so it might be helpful to put up a sign or two.     With melting temperatures, it makes no sense to pay workers on a weekend to try to flood the oval...especially since the oval looks fairly occupied. "

anyone would listen, just look on here for example. Signs mean nothing also. I've seen people park infront of no parking signs when a grader or sweeper is right behind them, and they just go in their house.  
 
Flooding the ice on days like this would be a waste. The water would take forever to freeze.  
 
Once schools back in, they should be able to get back on a regular schedule and the temperatures look to be getting back to normal.

This discussion got me thinking, if the city really didn't want people skating on the ice why wouldn't they shut all the lights off at night, obviously during the day it would have no impact, but at night it would solve the issue of people going on the ice. Another thing is I went down there to night to check it out, didn't skate though, and they have music playing on the speakers, so unless some hacked the system, the city must of turned them on. Also while I was there I looked for signs and there is one on the northside of the oval saying it is closed and there was a few signs saying 'oval closed' knocked over. Some of the ice was in pretty bad shape too.

We were at the Oval today and had absolutely no idea it was closed. We were parked in the south parking lot and specifically looked for signage stating it was closed. ..saw no signs anywhere in or near that parking lot. It was nice out so we didn't even try the warming shack so had no knowledge it was closed or locked. There were at least 40 to 50ppl there. ..lights all on. ..music on. We don't check the city fb page and weren't on ebrandon to view this until after we had gone! If I had known we would not have used it obviously but there was no indication at least in the south parking area of it being closed! I know signs may not do much for some ppl but had we seen one we would not have gone. If they don't want people skating there they definitely need to turn out the lights and music and put up more signs!

This has been sort of silly thing to get all riled up about one way or another, sure it would have been nice if the ice had of been done earlier, but it wasn't, and it would have been nice if people had stayed off it if it wasn't ready, but they didn't.  
Winter usually is long in this country, and things sometimes don't go as planned but the oval will likely get done and there will be evening and weekend skating, and regardless of the weather there will be people out using the oval, all's well and the world didn't end.

I found a Facebook page called 'skating the crescent' they have been skating in portage for some time. A few interesting things I learned. 1. This was/is an initiative from community members and costs the city of Portage nothing. A few local businesses donated equipment to keep the path clear. A few residents added a rink and are in the process of connecting it to the path. There is video from last night of them flooding the path...the old fashioned way, digging holes and using pumps to flood. This made me wonder, why does the oval in Brandon cost the residents and why is the oval at the mercy of when the city can get it done. not saying the city shouldn't do it or that it's a waste of money, I'm just thinking this is a project that community members who like to use the oval could take on.

Though it may look tempting to strap on your skates and try it out, the City of Brandon Community Services Department advises that the public skating oval in the area of McGregor Avenue isn't quite ready yet!  
 
As we all know, the first half of December was extremely mild and presented us with challenges related to having the oval ready for the Christmas break, in addition to the staffing realities of the holiday season.  
 
We are working hard to have it ready this week, but we need to the public to respect our work and resist the urge to check it out. YOU can help by PLEASE staying off the oval until the ice is ready for safe use!

There was a sign at one parking lot on the 1st but didn't see any sign anywhere else. There were a large number of people skating even with the ice being lumpy. Jan 1st this was.

The last two evenings, I have been noticing very loud music, as if broadcast over a loudspeaker. I live 5-6 blocks away.  
I was curious to know if it was coming from the skating oval.  
It was still playing after 1am.  
 
Edited by Jean , 2016-01-04 10:23:25

Never_give_up said "I found a Facebook page called 'skating the crescent' they have been skating in portage for some time. A few interesting things I learned. 1. This was/is an initiative from community members and costs the city of Portage nothing. A few local businesses donated equipment to keep the path clear. A few residents added a rink and are in the process of connecting it to the path. There is video from last night of them flooding the path...the old fashioned way, digging holes and using pumps to flood. This made me wonder, why does the oval in Brandon cost the residents and why is the oval at the mercy of when the city can get it done. not saying the city shouldn't do it or that it's a waste of money, I'm just thinking this is a project that community members who like to use the oval could take on. "

Sounds all wonderful and easy. I took a look. They are just flooding the slough around the island. That is very simple to do. It is a lot harder and more work to deal with flooding hard ground. Next year should be a cinch as it sounds like there are many ice makers on this forum that would gladly give up their time I am sure to help make ice. If making ice was as simple as it seams then why don't the lakes have the normal amount of ice thickness. Judging by my hydro bills the last few months have been very mild compared to what we are used to.

Not trying to start an arguement but the principles and science between building ice up from a frozen surface are different than pushing frost down into the ground or on a lake. I'm not a taxpayer in the city of Brandon but if council believes that a winter skating area is something of importance then one would think they would put some resources toward it.

don brown said "Not trying to start an arguement but the principles and science between building ice up from a frozen surface are different than pushing frost down into the ground or on a lake. I'm not a taxpayer in the city of Brandon but if council believes that a winter skating area is something of importance then one would think they would put some resources toward it. "

No but comparing us to portage where the ice is already built they just flooded it a little more to make it smooth is not a fair comparison. Starting on rough ground there probably needs to be what 8+ inches needed to cover all the grass, brush, etc on the ground. I bet if the weather was a good -15 and colder for the month of November/part of December this wouldn't have been an issue. I was still boat fishing in November. Sounds like they are putting resources into it, but you cannot control the weather.

Fishin Guy said "    don brown said "Not trying to start an arguement but the principles and science between building ice up from a frozen surface are different than pushing frost down into the ground or on a lake. I'm not a taxpayer in the city of Brandon but if council believes that a winter skating area is something of importance then one would think they would put some resources toward it. " No but comparing us to portage where the ice is already built they just flooded it a little more to make it smooth is not a fair comparison. Starting on rough ground there probably needs to be what 8+ inches needed to cover all the grass, brush, etc on the ground. I bet if the weather was a good -15 and colder for the month of November/part of December this wouldn't have been an issue. I was still boat fishing in November. Sounds like they are putting resources into it, but you cannot control the weather. "

exactly it. The weather was essentially too nice in Nov. and Dec. Even in Portage, they just got their oval done before the holidays. But then they were just putting water on a frozen lake. It's not like they had to haul water either. The other community centre rinks in Brandon also just got ice in before the holidays.

Building ice on a river or lake is much simpler, easy access to water and a level surface make it much easier. Trevor sort of implied that they only had two people working on this and they were using a 2000 gallon tank truck and flooding with a hose, when your flooding ground it takes a lot of water. If the city is going to have a skating area then there should be some things that maybe they should look at if they are going to use the same site every year. I would think that a properly prepared site would last for years and Trevor mentioned that pumping wasn't practical. I would hope the city has pumps and hose that would work for such a job, I would find it sort of sad if they don't have some pumps and hose. Trevor also mentioned about laying the hose out being a big job, it likely is if only two people are involved, but dedicate some funds to preparing the site for long term, and put more than minimal resources and get the job done quickly. Not sure how many days they have to use the truck, and how many man hours are involved only using two people, but sometimes a bit of planning does get a job done with less cost.  
 
I will admit that there would be problems arise by building manicured burms along walkways or the oval itself but usually it is able to find solutions that don't really increase the cost of the project.

CityofBrandon said "Though it may look tempting to strap on your skates and try it out, the City of Brandon Community Services Department advises that the public skating oval in the area of McGregor Avenue isn't quite ready yet!     As we all know, the first half of December was extremely mild and presented us with challenges related to having the oval ready for the Christmas break, in addition to the staffing realities of the holiday season.     We are working hard to have it ready this week, but we need to the public to respect our work and resist the urge to check it out. YOU can help by PLEASE staying off the oval until the ice is ready for safe use! "

better than a single sign? Yup, turn off the lights and the music, not too hard to take the hint the ice surface is closed then.

Johnbisonbear said "    CityofBrandon said "Though it may look tempting to strap on your skates and try it out, the City of Brandon Community Services Department advises that the public skating oval in the area of McGregor Avenue isn't quite ready yet!     As we all know, the first half of December was extremely mild and presented us with challenges related to having the oval ready for the Christmas break, in addition to the staffing realities of the holiday season.     We are working hard to have it ready this week, but we need to the public to respect our work and resist the urge to check it out. YOU can help by PLEASE staying off the oval until the ice is ready for safe use! " better than a single sign? Yup, turn off the lights and the music, not too hard to take the hint the ice surface is closed then. "

the light display and music does not require the ice. You can still enjoy the lights and music without the ice.  
 
And most people were there during the day when the lights and music were off. And even then people didn't take the hint, neither did the shacks being locked. Went by there this afternoon, and there was someone skating on it even with the signs clearly up!!

don brown said "Building ice on a river or lake is much simpler, easy access to water and a level surface make it much easier. Trevor sort of implied that they only had two people working on this and they were using a 2000 gallon tank truck and flooding with a hose, when your flooding ground it takes a lot of water. If the city is going to have a skating area then there should be some things that maybe they should look at if they are going to use the same site every year. I would think that a properly prepared site would last for years and Trevor mentioned that pumping wasn't practical. I would hope the city has pumps and hose that would work for such a job, I would find it sort of sad if they don't have some pumps and hose. Trevor also mentioned about laying the hose out being a big job, it likely is if only two people are involved, but dedicate some funds to preparing the site for long term, and put more than minimal resources and get the job done quickly. Not sure how many days they have to use the truck, and how many man hours are involved only using two people, but sometimes a bit of planning does get a job done with less cost.     I will admit that there would be problems arise by building manicured burms along walkways or the oval itself but usually it is able to find solutions that don't really increase the cost of the project. "

I do agree except....The location used is prone to flooding isn't it? Maybe setting up around the discovery center could be a better option. I know potential for flooding is higher but where they have that large field north of the discovery center it may be easier to set up lights and skating in that area and maintain it over the summer.

Sounds like Don and Fishin Guy have some good ideas for others to consider?  
 
Wonder how many gallons of water does it take to make the oval? That would be many trips with a 2000 gallon tank. As Don says, the cost to setup a pump and run hose might be less and get the job done quicker?