Discussions

It was reported in yesterday's Brandon Sun that 24 management positions will be cut in accordance with a directive from the MB Government. I wonder if there will be actual job losses or just more people shuffling and window dressing to make it look like 24 positions were cut? Just like when the RHA amalgamated a couple of years ago to save money. People were shuffled around, depts. were decentralized, now time and money is wasted with travelling and meetings upon meetings.

I can say for a fact that the cuts are real as I know of four for sure personally. Terminations are effective immediately as well. I really feel for these people especially with the suddenness of the loss of employment.

This story is from the Winnipeg RHA but the job loss is real.  
 
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/wrha-cuts-management-1.4150675

i believe the word " fired " is used incorrectly unless she was terminated for cause , not laid off.

These positions aren't unionized so they are always at a risk of being let go. Sometimes moving up isn't always the best thing to do far as job security goes and that is important in this day and age. These people shouldn't have a problem going back to the floor with their qualifications. Way back when schools had principals and vise principals, now many have just principals that have to teach part time.

I hope the money they will save from having these people on their payroll will now go where it should have been going all the time. To patients, to reducing wait times, recruiting doctors, etc. I watched my mother for 15 months suffer in a hospital, so I know they need more important people in the hospital looking after patients.  
 
Not someone sitting in an upper office, making the big bucks, were they never see what is really going on.  
 
http://winnipeg.ctvnews.ca/5-3-million-in-severance-handed-out-for-wrha-job-cuts-1.3449890  
 
Edited by Brenda, 2017-06-08 17:41:44

My thoughts go out to the workers who have been terminated. It happens, and many of us have been there before.  
 
I just hope the RHA leaders are as good at leading the troops through tough times as they are at cutting ribbons.

This is a sign of the times. I really feel for all those that have lost their jobs and also those managers that remain. The work and expectations are not reduced, simply the number of people are reduced. Programs/personel will still require planning and management. Some posters here may not realize that planning and management are integral to a well run organization and yes this includes the PMH. Many managers now will have additional workload added on to an already "busting at the seams" workweek to take on the work of those let go. For those such as Brenda that think the funds saved can be re-alocated, dream on! There are no savings, only less money added to the debt so the cuts are only saving money that we didn't have in the first place. Money saved that you don't have doesn't give you funds to spend on other things. Again, feel sorry for those that lost and those tgat are gaining in their workload as these cuts were implemented in a terrible way.

That people constantly come on and whine about government bodies (the city of Brandon for example) having way too many managers and not enough workers and yet nobody here has really said, hey maybe this is the same situation. Maybe the rha doesn't need so many managers, they need frontline workers so patients continue to get great care. I'm glad that the conservatives are forcing government bodies to be more fiscally responsible. So many people believe you get a government job, who cares how well you work because you are in a union, put in 30 years and get a great pension.  
 
Now I'm not completely heartless, I do feel for these workers as it's never fun to lose a job but maybe now they can understand how uncertain the private sector is? Maybe people will work harder at their jobs and learn to be more efficient? And then again maybe not.. but at least our taxes aren't going up.

Viv said "That people constantly come on and whine about government bodies (the city of Brandon for example) having way too many managers and not enough workers and yet nobody here has really said, hey maybe this is the same situation. Maybe the rha doesn't need so many managers, they need frontline workers so patients continue to get great care. I'm glad that the conservatives are forcing government bodies to be more fiscally responsible. So many people believe you get a government job, who cares how well you work because you are in a union, put in 30 years and get a great pension.     Now I'm not completely heartless, I do feel for these workers as it's never fun to lose a job but maybe now they can understand how uncertain the private sector is? Maybe people will work harder at their jobs and learn to be more efficient? And then again maybe not.. but at least our taxes aren't going up. "

too many managers.  
 
I worked at a great job for 23 year in Brandon, good wage, six weeks holidays, 6 weeks vacation, sick days and 100% insurance coverage policy.  
 
I got laid off without any kind of warning, after so many months on lay off, it rolls over to termination.  
 
So, I do know how they feel, but if they can lay that many off - they had way too many in the first place.

The irony is that they may just hire people at lower wage rates or that are better in line with the philosophy of the current government.  
 
It's spring time; they are busy shedding leaves from the tree. Now the people can sit on their easy chair and sharpen their knives all summer.  
 
When is the next election?

Time to consider a visit fee, especially for emergency services. Too many people clogging emergency with sniffles and a cold which takes staff and physician time away from real emergency cases. I realize this would just be a drop in the bucket as far as savings, but so was these last manager cuts. Governments have been overspending for just too long. Certainly not the last of cost cutting measures to come. Government spending is still way too high and the sad truth is that we all have become accostomed to government services at a level tgat we can''t afford. Can austerity measures be that far off?  
 
Edited by 70`s guy, 2017-06-09 08:28:34

Lower end managers will have their workload increased which could result in less efficient work and more sick time, long term stress leaves (ie cost to the system in other ways) etc. I am happy to say that this did not effect me, but I am not management. Having said that the emotional strain this put on PMH is over the roof. Those of us who have been here for a number of years saying good bye to friends and co workers who we have been with since our first day on the job. Yes we will all try to keep in touch but we are all left saying what just happened??So sad.  
Did the cuts save anything? Yes in the long run they will (and to those who asked about moving people like window dressing...some people moved to fill vacant positions...some let go completely). Yes obviously there are severence packages but it was abrupt and hit the staff like a ton of bricks. Tough on morale!!  
Let's not forget that each manager had administrative support (secretaries/assistants) who are now left wondering what their back up plan is. Yes they have back up plans but who wants to be forced to change jobs with so little notice.  
Will this money "saved" go to other programs and cut wait times like was suggested by another poster? Nope! It is money they never had to spend!! I don''t think people understand that. We are going to take this person''s salary and relocate it to buying equipment...we didn''t have the money to pay that salary so there is no new equipment.  
I guess the next question is how did we get here? I am not a huge political person but I dont'' believe that this happend in the last year. I believe that this is a clean up crew (Pallister) cleaning up the elephant poop after the parade. Let''s remember this in a few years when we go back to the polls.  
This was so fast. Does anyone understand the amount of invaluable knowledge these people are taking with them? Some of them were the life line to this facility. They didn''t have time to pass on any of that knowledge.  
One manager was my go to. She helped me in every situation with guidance. She wasn''t my manager but when approached always helped. I always knew that if a problem arose she would be there and the voice of reason and spoke from experience. I was proud to call her my friend and co-worker for more than 25 years.  
I haven''t put this in words as well as I wanted to but I hope I have made my point. Did this need to be done? Probably...are these people going to be missed? For sure!! In so many ways!!!  
Best of luck to all of those moving on and those being shuffled to new positions.  
 
Edited by wheatcitygirl, 2017-06-09 09:16:30

Brenda said "I hope the money they will save from having these people on their payroll will now go where it should have been going all the time. To patients, to reducing wait times, recruiting doctors, etc. I watched my mother for 15 months suffer in a hospital, so I know they need more important people in the hospital looking after patients.     Not someone sitting in an upper office, making the big bucks, were they never see what is really going on.     http://winnipeg.ctvnews.ca/5-3-million-in-severance-handed-out-for-wrha-job-cuts-1.3449890     Edited by Brenda, 2017-06-08 17:41:44"

They are reducing staff levels, the money saved is to be saved, period. The staff will not be replaced by those looking after the patients. This is simply an exercise to save money, not to increase patient care.  
 
Sorry to say, but the suffering you refer to will not be diminished by this, if anything the lack of management will only make things in our hospitals worse.  
 
The cost reduction is to balance the books, nothing more nothing less.

This will not increase services or staff. It will put more pressure on the staff that are left which may result in more stress on staff, longer waits, less people on the front line to deliver care.

You think you waited before for test / hallway medicine etc. You haven't seen anything yet. Yes some top positions are going some of that is great. However the ones that help with patients care procedures just being a team player will be missed. As far as a user fee who will police that. Your emergency Definition and someone else's will always differ.  
You will never stop colds fever things like that...... it's a bottle neck thing. Some people abuse the system. Always have always will

Isn't it too bad they can't manage to do this exact thing in government itself ? ?  
Instead they take 20% + pay raises when they come in to pòwer

braid said "Isn't it too bad they can't manage to do this exact thing in government itself ? ?   Instead they take 20% + pay raises when they come in to pòwer "

The $70,000 bonus he gave himself.  
Pallister is not concerned about the deficit, all he cares about is making his own pockets fatter.

Grace1956 said "You think you waited before for test / hallway medicine etc. You haven't seen anything yet. Yes some top positions are going some of that is great. However the ones that help with patients care procedures just being a team player will be missed. As far as a user fee who will police that. Your emergency Definition and someone else's will always differ.   You will never stop colds fever things like that...... it's a bottle neck thing. Some people abuse the system. Always have always will "

Emergency visit would be just that, no exceptions. If you wouldn't be able to pay on the spot then a bill would be sent to your home. Broken arm, cracked skull, chest pains or mild cold. I would suggest all visits to emergency be subjdct to $10 fee. I think the fee would make a lot of people think twicw about using the emergency services at tge hospital. Ridiculous suggestion you may say as we in Canada pride ourselves of "free" medicare. Think again, it's not free! That person today going to emerge for service for a cold is getting their visit paid for by you, the taxpayed and gdnerations of taxpayers to follow as we are continuously running deficits.

Who would do the work for the billing?  
More work for the staff that works in ER and admitting. We got patients who abuse the ambulance as a taxi people on social assistance who can't pay. You can't get blood for a stone. You chase someone down for x amount of money. You will need to hire someone for that Good Luck.  
Because they will tell you I pay your wages I pay taxes the list never stops.

Grace1956 said "Who would do the work for the billing?   More work for the staff that works in ER and admitting. We got patients who abuse the ambulance as a taxi people on social assistance who can't pay. You can't get blood for a stone. You chase someone down for x amount of money. You will need to hire someone for that Good Luck.   Because they will tell you I pay your wages I pay taxes the list never stops. "

I'm not inventing the wheel here. User pay for services paid with our taxes whether it be Municipal, provincial or federal is nothing new. Just one way of recuperationg over costs of expensive services. User pay exisys for parks, water, garbage, etc. Thkse that don't pay. Well that's simple enough. The government could garnish back funds from social assistance or year end tax refund. All systems are computerised now and can easily be linked. No need to hire a repo guy to chase delinquents around lol!

Mauve said "    braid said "Isn't it too bad they can't manage to do this exact thing in government itself ? ?   Instead they take 20% + pay raises when they come in to pòwer " The $70,000 bonus he gave himself.   Pallister is not concerned about the deficit, all he cares about is making his own pockets fatter. "

It was not a raise. It was Paliister getting Greg old wage before Greg was dinged 20 percent for running a budget deficit. The Premier and his cabinet may have said no to going back to the old cabinets/premiers old wages. I think that would look good but we have to remember these guys will also get dinged if they run a deficit next year. To the OP. I have a problem with across the board percentage cuts.  
 
Especially in house. We have no clue if these are the hardest working managers or if since it is non union someone(s) not choosing best.  
 
I think it should have based partially if not mostly on dollars. In the end our health care system will adapt. Front line service so far is left as is. The WPG hospital changes are logistical. If all Rural hospitals do not have ER's can Winnipeg do with a few less?  
 
In Rural Manitoba just because the word hospital is on the front does not mean it does everything. It is the doorway to all services somewhere in Manitoba.

I know other provinces have done this. Especially if your from out of province. I would say a surcharge for using an emergency service for non-emergent care. Maybe than emergency rooms would be used only for emergencies. And I think the closing of rural hospitals is a sad thing, since most rural hospitals are attached to care homes and maybe the only places to see doctors. As for managers going back on the floor, many haven't been nurses for a long time, and hopefully whoever is left shakes up where they're managing and stream line things

This must be difficult indeed for those who have been let go, very unfortunate in some cases. Many of these positions and others are overpaid compared to duties carried out vs other sectors. Just wondering if the RHA has released a list of positions that were terminated that are published publicly so people can realize where the adjustments have been made. I know there are always efficiencies but would be interesting to see how they prioritized.

Spent the day at the Health Science Center with a dear friend. (really nothing about the lay off''s, but what is happening already)  
 
Her husband had a cat scan on May 31 in Brandon and they drove back to Virden. When they got home to Virden they were told he needed to get to the Virden hospital, in an ambulance and get to the Health science Centre.  
 
The ambulance drivers knew their shifts would end part way through this journey, so they left Virden, met an ambulance from Neepawa at the Carberry junction and transferred him to their ambulance right on the road - unbelievable!  
 
They finally got to Winnipeg for this emergency and saw a doctor at five in the morning. So this emergency surgery he went in for, actually took place yesterday. So from May 31 till June 8, they sat and waited every day for this emergency surgery to take place.  
 
During this time they had plenty of time to talk to the surgeon. While he is getting bumped for a person coming in with a knife in his head, another with a gun shot wound, etc. As they were talking to the surgeon and talking about wait times, they were informed that the whole Health Science Centre that serves Manitoba, Northern Ontario and Nunavut has only one surgery theater open on weekends! That is it, that is what they are given. Truly unbelievable.  
 
Edited by Brenda, 2017-06-09 22:36:34

You mean May 31??

curlysister said "You mean May 31?? "

trying to rush through summer or just a very tiresome day. Thanks curlysiser, it is fixed.

Brenda said "Spent the day at the Health Science Center with a dear friend. (really nothing about the lay off''s, but what is happening already)     Her husband had a cat scan on May 31 in Brandon and they drove back to Virden. When they got home to Virden they were told he needed to get to the Virden hospital, in an ambulance and get to the Health science Centre.     The ambulance drivers knew their shifts would end part way through this journey, so they left Virden, met an ambulance from Neepawa at the Carberry junction and transferred him to their ambulance right on the road - unbelievable!     They finally got to Winnipeg for this emergency and saw a doctor at five in the morning. So this emergency surgery he went in for, actually took place yesterday. So from May 31 till June 8, they sat and waited every day for this emergency surgery to take place.     During this time they had plenty of time to talk to the surgeon. While he is getting bumped for a person coming in with a knife in his head, another with a gun shot wound, etc. As they were talking to the surgeon and talking about wait times, they were informed that the whole Health Science Centre that serves Manitoba, Northern Ontario and Nunavut has only one surgery theater open on weekends! That is it, that is what they are given. Truly unbelievable.     Edited by Brenda, 2017-06-09 22:36:34"

They're called Paramedics, and they intercept with trucks like you mentioned to ensure safety for both them and the patient. From what I gathered you said, they would have already worked close to a 12 hour day. Add another 6.5 hours of drive time and another 1 to possible 8 hours of waiting at HSC.  
 
That's a minimum of a 20 hour work day with the likelihood of working the next day. I sure wouldn't want to be left in the care of someone who has worked that long.

Brenda said "Spent the day at the Health Science Center with a dear friend. (really nothing about the lay off''s, but what is happening already)     Her husband had a cat scan on May 31 in Brandon and they drove back to Virden. When they got home to Virden they were told he needed to get to the Virden hospital, in an ambulance and get to the Health science Centre.     The ambulance drivers knew their shifts would end part way through this journey, so they left Virden, met an ambulance from Neepawa at the Carberry junction and transferred him to their ambulance right on the road - unbelievable!     They finally got to Winnipeg for this emergency and saw a doctor at five in the morning. So this emergency surgery he went in for, actually took place yesterday. So from May 31 till June 8, they sat and waited every day for this emergency surgery to take place.     During this time they had plenty of time to talk to the surgeon. While he is getting bumped for a person coming in with a knife in his head, another with a gun shot wound, etc. As they were talking to the surgeon and talking about wait times, they were informed that the whole Health Science Centre that serves Manitoba, Northern Ontario and Nunavut has only one surgery theater open on weekends! That is it, that is what they are given. Truly unbelievable.     Edited by Brenda, 2017-06-09 22:36:34"

clarify a few things here.....The "ambulance drivers" went out 10+ years ago. Anyone wearing the uniform driving or treating the Pt. is a minimum EM-Tech, but more likely PCP/EMT-P. And while I love calling them "ambulance drivers" to their faces (as they get really worked up about this) they spend 6-9mths of initial schooling/testing, plus countless hours of schooling/training/testing to receive/upkeep their license/career and take it very seriously. When we did have "ambulance drivers" they were just a Class 4 DL and First Aid (2 day course) and could not treat a Pt....so please remember these "ambulance drivers" are actually Paramedics.  
As someone else has also said, Virden - HSC will be between 3hrs - 4hrs (depending on the "code" they are allowed to run the call at). They are NOT a taxi, so they may sit with their Pt. at HSC for 30mins - 10hrs depending on times. So even if your friend was transferred from Virden @ the beginning of their shifts they could still potentially be over hours by the time they return to the station. For some towns with 1 ambulance, that would put us "out of service" for basically 24hrs, relying on other rural ambulances (ex. Reston would be waiting on Melita, Virden, Deloraine, Souris depending on who is available at the time of an emergency). Hence why they would have transferred your friend to another available crew that just started their shifts. This is not only for safety (of the EMS and Pt.) and QUALITY of Pt. care (which is a priority of all "ambulance drivers"), but cost saving (which this initial discussion is related too). Why pay EMS time & a half to sit over hours at the HSC with a Pt. for upwards of 10hrs when you can have them off the clock in their reg. shift and another crew working in the reg. shift with the Pt. No one takes O/T and we read on the next e-brandon thread about "EMS are wasting my tax paying dollars due to O/T sitting at HSC".  
Just my opinion, I could be wrong!!

Some time ago I received a pamphlet from the PC Party which amongst other things mentioned all the jobs which have been created in this Province. The way I see it - Manitoba has lost over 10,000 jobs since the PC Party came to power. These job losses include health and education due to funding cuts, Manitoba Hydro - 900 positions, Investors - 86 positions, Walmart - 400 positions, Thompson mine recently announced the abolishment of 150 positions, The Bay has announced several positions being cut in the near future, Bombardier has cut positions and the list goes on and on. As far as job creation goes - the only jobs I have seen to date are those published in the Manitoba Gazette - (a weekly publication printed by the Queens Printer). In the Gazette there is a little section that deals with Political Appointments, Patronage Appointments and Order in Council Appointments - these are individuals who have donated countless hours of time to the P.C. Party and have been appointed to a Government Position, Board or Commission as a reward for their services.