Discussions

I'd say you're wrong. Asking "so when can I start" is not the same thing as asking to see the place. Maybe if they asked "so when can I move in". You expect them to jump through all the hoops that you want them too without them even knowing if the place is a dump. You are correct that its no different than a job application and I will never give references before having an initial interview. Why should anyone give you contact information for someone else without even knowing if they want to move in/work for you.  
 
You seem to be under the impression that you are doing these people a favor by providing them with a place. Like a job, a rental is a two way street. If you started respecting other people's time as much as you want them to respect yours, perhaps you would have better tenants.  
 
Same goes with jobs. If you expect someone to dump references on your desk before even talking to them, you are the type of person I wouldn't want to work with. People need to respect the time of applicants and the time of their references. If you can't offer that simple courtesy, I wouldn't rent from you either.  
 
End counter rant.  
 
[Edit] Perhaps a better solution would be to offer an open house and tell everyone to come see it then, have a stack of applications ready and do it that way. That way, nobody wastes their time and everyone is happy.  
 
Edited by CRP, 2015-07-12 02:48:57

So what your saying is I should be showing them the house before I do anything else? Sorry but that seems backwards to me. If they get upset I didn't pick them...what is to stop them from coming back and trying to wreck the place. I put a lot of effort into making a place nice to live in...doesn't automatically mean anyone going in is going to respect that, no matter how much respect I give them. Ive had it happen many times. Ive rented to people that have made me promises, had glowing references, and even given chances to those with "sad stories"...ive gotten disappointed more often than not. Perhaps that is why im trying this method.  
The reason I made a comparison to applying for a job, is...a lot of places have an application you fill out...or you type up a resume, and hand it in....long before you get to talk to someone seriously about the job. At best, when you walk in, you are asking if you can apply for work there.

On the information that you ask. You should ask about basic questions that matters to you at the first stage and they need to respond before showing the place to them. For example if they smoke and you You do not need to ask about their reference s or more detailed information at the first stage. If their respond satisfies you and they are interested to see the place, you better to show the place, s if they do not like the neighbourhood or place itself does not work for them, none of you, landlord or tenants, waste their time. You also have a chance to meet with them and talk to them personally. At this stage if you both are interested to have an agreement, you can ask for their references or detail information about their job or etc.

I did not finish my comment and it is posted so this is continue of above.  
 
Nobody wants to give all their information at the first step, neither landlord or tenant and this make sense, but if the basic things are met, then tenants should be able to see the place and in return give their references to landlord if they like the place.  
I am a landlord too and I never ask for all detailed information of applicants before they have chance to see the place or before I have chance to meet with them personally.  
Good luck and hope you find good tenants .

I wouldn't bother filling out a bunch of paperwork, finding references, and then having my references be bothered by a phone call when I don't even know what the place looks like.  
 
A renter is PAYING YOU. You aren't doing them some big favour by allowing them into your rental. It goes both ways.  
 
One time I answered an ad for a rental where the landlord set a date and time for people to come view the rental. The landlord handed out applications during the viewing. People filled them out and handed them in then and there, and you went home and waited for the call saying if you were the chosen applicant. You could try something like that maybe

I would like to see the place before I go through the application process. Maybe you could do a simple phone pre-screening before showing?

You are 100% correct and that is how we handle our rentals after learning over time. It is a screening process, same as filling outa job application. Just because you take the time to apply for a job or an rental does not mean you have to take it or the landlord has to rent to you.  
 
If a tenant cannot take the time to fill out an application, then they may not take the time to show up to see the property either, and may not take the time take care of the property either. It is about showing actual interest in renting, and not just randomly looking. Yes, we will email photos of the property though to see if it suits, and give an idea of the general area. We have sat for HOURS waiting for people to show up to look, and will no longer do this. We now have prospective tenants fill out an application (main questions are about past rentals, how long you lived there, are you employed, and yes, your income. If you cannot afford the rent then no we will not take the time to show our property). Then we chose from the applications who is best suited, set up an open house showing for the 1-3 applicants for them to view, us to meet them in person, and go from there. It's called respect on both parties to take the time to fill out the application, show up at he agreed upon time to view (this is like a job applications process). If you don't like us or the property at that point, you don't have to rent from us either.  
 
With the other post that mentions a 1% vacancy this process works for us. We have had close to 100 emails within 24 hours of posting an ad and pull the add quickly. It's those who take the time to fill out the application are considered for the property.

I've rented many places in Brandon, and I too have always seen the place before deciding if I wanted to fill out an application and give references. This is the way it usually works.  
 
Also, with a less than 1% vacancy rate, I imagine there a re a lot of desperate people out there. You can't blame them for wanting to try and get a leg up on renting a place.  
 
If you're worried about showing the place because of fear they'll come back and cause damage if they don't get it, well, maybe you're in the wrong business? And I agree with others who say your acting like you're time is more important than the people you are renting too.

Where the place is. I wouldn't fill anything out until I have at least seen the outside. It's a waste of time for both of us if the place is not acceptable to me. Maybe it's in a bad neighbourhood. Nowhere near anything I need. I think it's shady to advertise a place and not want to give out where it's located. I once applied for a place and then found out it was located on the core of brandon. I told them no, it wasn't right for me. They told me that I had filled out all the paperwork, and was suppose to move in. Um no sorry, that's not how it works. But with the rental issue being so little you should have no problem finding someone to comply with your issues. Good luck, but if your looking for smart reliable tenants then ease off, and accept some of the risks of being a landlord!

R.N. said "An application should always be completed before viewing the property. The is the appropriate way to handle things. Anyone who disagrees need not apply to any of my properties. As a landlord this is my investment and I need to know who I'm bringing to view the property and if they even initially qualify. To the person who said an application is not filled out before viewing the property, well that is not correct and would be bad business practice and a real time waster as the landlord has no information of the prospective tenant. So why would I waste my time showing my investment to people who don't even initially qualify? I wouldn't and I don't.     And to the other person saying you aren't doing the prospective tenant any favours. Well, actually that is wrong. As the landlord I have the investment that you want to rent from me. So the burden of proving that you are the right tenant for my investment is on you. I have something you want. So I won't give you access until I've completed my due diligence to protect my investment. It's a simple as that. It's my investment period so I will make sure all appropriate screening is done on a potential tenant. For whoever thinks that is unfair can blame the tenants out there that have ruined things for the really good people out there looking for a place to call home.     "

This is more or less how I see things as a Landlord as well.  
 
You can argue all day who's time should be more important, Landlord or prospective tenant, but today in brandon, its a landlord's market. You don't like the arrangement? Too bad for you. There's 50 more people in line behind you. It isn't personal, it's business.  
 
The "oh well im going to be paying you, therefore you should be accomodating me" argument is a red herring, because that goes without saying. That's the most basic requirement for even considering renting.  
 
I've gone the viewing before basic info route before, and it's a nightmare. No-shows, late-shows, drunk-shows, can i have a ride?-shows. I kid you not.  
 
The application before viewing process helps to weed out the people who either arent fully committed, or are simply too lazy. Neither would qualify as good tennants.  
 
If you can't be bothered to take the time to answer a few simple questions, then I don't have the time to show you the place.  
 
 
 
Edited by Torque, 2015-07-12 10:53:03

TerriR said "So what your saying is I should be showing them the house before I do anything else? Sorry but that seems backwards to me. If they get upset I didn't pick them...what is to stop them from coming back and trying to wreck the place. I put a lot of effort into making a place nice to live in...doesn't automatically mean anyone going in is going to respect that, no matter how much respect I give them. Ive had it happen many times. Ive rented to people that have made me promises, had glowing references, and even given chances to those with "sad stories"...ive gotten disappointed more often than not. Perhaps that is why im trying this method.   The reason I made a comparison to applying for a job, is...a lot of places have an application you fill out...or you type up a resume, and hand it in....long before you get to talk to someone seriously about the job. At best, when you walk in, you are asking if you can apply for work there. "

You are absolutely right!

as a landlord and tenant i always saw/showed the unit first but i have had the same issues the op has had, no shows ect so i can see the benefit of emailing them an application with a few basic screening questions before moving to the showing and credit check part of the application and like it or not Brandon has had such a low vacancy rate tenants would just have to deal with the landlords ways but as many times the unit is shown i dont think the op is justified in their rant, not all landlords operate the same way so many tenants are not used to the same process

When I moved into my first apartment, I sent them a message about myself and my pets. They set up a viewing. I brought my references, my dogs paper work (vaccines and obedience course papers), and a pay stub (I didn't know if they wanted that, but I wanted to prove as an 18 year old I could afford the rent). I showed them the paper work and they kept my references, then in a few days I got a call asking if I still wanted the place. I honestly would hate to go through all that work (because everything would have to be scanned to be emailed, where this way I could just show them) and not even know what I'm renting. I think bringing it to the showing is a good idea, you get to see the place and going over the paper work in person gives you a chance to meet the landlords (and the landlord the tenant) before you choose to move in.

I am a landlord and I always show the place and if the people are interested then I get them to fill out an application.this works well for me I have been a landlord for over 40 yrs.

knowing the location, type of rental (entire house, part of house, apartment building), cost, and included appliances should be in the initial advertisement. That would allow possible applicants to weed out unsuitable units for them.  
 
The location can be a big deal for those who may not have a vehicle and either walk to work or need public transport. They may need a location in a suitable area.  
 
Also being able to see the location and outside condition can tell how the landlord maintains the property, slumlord or not.  
 
And in the initial contact between the possible renter and landlord, it gives the renter a chance to gauge the character the landlord.  
 
It's a two way street.

Give out your SIN to get a credit report? Cause if your asking me to give a "stranger" my SIN, future landlord or not, your effin crazy. I'm not a landlord but I have been a tenant and I have never ever been asked to fill out an application before I see the place. If you can't show me where I will be possibly living with my family then I would immediately think your a slum landlord. What are you hiding?

Trevor B said "knowing the location, type of rental (entire house, part of house, apartment building), cost, and included appliances should be in the initial advertisement. That would allow possible applicants to weed out unsuitable units for them.     The location can be a big deal for those who may not have a vehicle and either walk to work or need public transport. They may need a location in a suitable area.     Also being able to see the location and outside condition can tell how the landlord maintains the property, slumlord or not.     And in the initial contact between the possible renter and landlord, it gives the renter a chance to gauge the character the landlord.     It's a two way street. "

Two way street...this coming from a bldg manager and renter. We take calls. Place them in order. We describe all the details over the phone before the showing. We show suite and if someone is interested, then they fill out an application and it's submitted to be approved. (usually same day). When approved, we take the deposit (to hold it) and first month rent on move in date. Amount is pro-rated if someone moves in part way into the month. If they change their mind or are not approved, it goes to next person on list.  
Vacancies and all the particulars are usually posted on the property manager website.

Just Saying said "Give out your SIN to get a credit report? Cause if your asking me to give a "stranger" my SIN, future landlord or not, your effin crazy. I'm not a landlord but I have been a tenant and I have never ever been asked to fill out an application before I see the place. If you can't show me where I will be possibly living with my family then I would immediately think your a slum landlord. What are you hiding? "

can be requested if a property management company is acting on behalf of landlord/owner. This is legally binding document that protects the bldg owner as well as tenant. Sometimes a guarantor form may be required also if tenant is not approved due to bad credit or references. But individual owners can go about renting as they see fit. Some will not worry about credit, but request references. See attached picture of our PM company's application.  
But ya, who would put in application and give out personal information without making personal contact or viewing. Good point.

I have never given out my info before seeing a place and never will. Funny how people when shopping for a house say use a broker as it is only one credit check.....well if everyone renting did credit checks I am sure someone would have 50+ credit checks against them within a couple months trying to find a place. What does that do to one's credit? If I don't know an address don't even expect me to apply. To me you have something to hide. I like to check out the area, schools, shopping, general area, all that stuff before showing interest or not. Otherwise we are wasting both our times. I do a meet and greet, landlord brings an application. We do the small talk, get a feel for each other. Proceed with a walk through, if all parties are on board application is filled out, I wait on a call saying either denied or when I can bring in damage and first months rent. I will never give my life history to someone just to rent a place even before seeing it.

I always skip over rental ads with no pics and little info. I just think it must be either ugly or run down if there are no pictures. Unfortunately, it IS a Landlords market right now and they can get away with unreasonable and over the top demands.

Oh and those doing credit checks:  
 
Some private-sector organizations may ask for your SIN. This practice is strongly discouraged, but it is not illegal.  
 
Here are examples of when you don’t have to give your Social Insurance Number:  
 
1-proving your identity (except for specific government programs)  
2-completing a job application before you get the job  
3-completing an application to rent a property  
4-negotiating a lease with a landlord  
5-completing credit card application  
6-cashing a cheque  
7-applying for a video club membership  
8-completing some banking transactions (mortgage, line of credit, loan)  
9-completing a medical questionnaire  
10-renting a car  
11-subscribing to long-distance or cellular telephone services  
12-writing a will  
13-applying to a university or college.  

As a landlord we ask for application when they come see the place. If they don't want it they don't have to give us the info after the viewing. As a tenant I would want to see the place first.

Would suggest that each landlord and tenant has a choice on how they screen rental locations and potential renters. One size doesn't fit all.  
 
With landlords renting a asset that could be worth $50,000 to $150,000 plus would suggest they have the most to loose with choosing a tenant. The 1.1% vacancy rate tells us all that their is more demand than supply.  
 
Comparing a rental property to the purchase of a car, real estate agent or bank is not a real fair comparison as there is way more supply than demand.  
 
Would suggest that it is more like a application for a job. Don't fill out a application you don't have a chance at a interview.  
 

your not going to apply to a job ad that doesn't say what type of job, name of business or where it's located. Those are the details you need to know before appying.  
 
Your not going to apply for a job, get a phone call for an interview at the business to find out the job is in Winnipeg.  
 
Even if you don't get a walk through of the apartment before you apply, the address should be in the ad so you can drive by or Google Earth the address and see what exactly what the place is before applying.

As a landlord we request an application to be filled out before we show the apartment. If they are too lazy to do this then they are probably too lazy to take out the garbage or clean the apartment. If they actually take the time to fill out the application then they will probably show up as well to view the apartment at the time of the appointment. It's easy, don't want to fill out the application, next.

Sean said "As a landlord we request an application to be filled out before we show the apartment. If they are too lazy to do this then they are probably too lazy to take out the garbage or clean the apartment. If they actually take the time to fill out the application then they will probably show up as well to view the apartment at the time of the appointment. It's easy, don't want to fill out the application, next. "

you at least provide an address for the place in your ad? Because that also shows something about the landlord.

In the ad we mention the area of town it's in. If someone emails and requests the address we give it to them