Discussions

After reading today's Sound Off in the sun someone commented on how Harper has dragged into a war that has nothing to do with us and we are peacekeepers and peacemakers.  
Well how do we make peace? Maybe talk to ISIS and maybe they'll stop raping and kidnapping and beheading people?  
This is a war we have to be in. It's not just the middle easts problem. We are a target and will continue to be one as long as we live free and have allies that do the same.  
We can't just sit back and let other nations do all the heavy lifting. When did canada become full of people that have no back bone? Do we not stand up for people in need? Think if the roles were reversed and you were the one in need and under ISIS's thumb?

a popular opinion but I do agree with you. No one would just sit back and ignore it if abuse was happening to your neighbor on your street so we shouldn't allow it in other nations either. Everyone deserves to live with the basic of human rights.  
 
and yes, I for one would welcome the aid if the roles were reversed.

We are not a target. ISIS entire philosophy and mandate revolves around a specific area in the Middle East. They call their followers there. The bombing is not only ineffective, it is costly. If we were to focus on something it should be to prevent anymore of our own becoming radicalized.  
 
2 terrorist caused deaths here in Canada in the past decade and over 1100 missing and murdered aboriginal women ... yes Harper has the priorities way out of whack.

Why would it be just aboriginal women that Harper should put his priorities in place.What about all the other people in Canada that are missing and murdered or is this just another racial remark?I guess only aboriginal people count and not any one else.Just making a point.

with the part to prevent any more of our own from becoming radicalized; the dilemma then becomes "how"?  
"Only 2 terrorist caused deaths here in Canada"; would it have a greater impact if there were more??? And there are many many more than 1100 missing & murdered PEOPLE; somehow the others are forgotten.  
Why not hang out signs saying "come get us"??  
We are a country of freedoms allowing all things that ISIS detests. Only my opinion . . . . .

ICYMI said "We are not a target. ISIS entire philosophy and mandate revolves around a specific area in the Middle East. They call their followers there. The bombing is not only ineffective, it is costly. If we were to focus on something it should be to prevent anymore of our own becoming radicalized.     2 terrorist caused deaths here in Canada in the past decade and over 1100 missing and murdered aboriginal women ... yes Harper has the priorities way out of whack. "

I think it is you who is confused. ISIS has urged attacks on Canadian soil (google it) and funny how you ignore my comment about how if the shoe were on the other foot would you want help. But I expected as much from you based on your other posts.  
 
Comparing 2 terrorist deaths to missing aboriginals is such a stupid thing to compare. Like we can't do both? What can Harper do to solve missing aboriginals?  
 
So what your'e saying is when ISIS rolls into a town and commits mass murder and rape that's something we shouldn't do something about?  
 
I don't disagree about prevention people being radicalized but that's only part of it. That doesn't stop from ISIS trying to advance and claim more territory.  
 
I bet if this were the 40's you'd say Hitler and Japanese were Europes problem just like the Americans did until the problem was on their doorstep.  
 
And not to mention we have to support our allies if we want to get other things done...that's just politics though. Above all it's the right thing to do.  
 
Not saying your'e right or wrong, we just have different opinions.

Not saying we shouldn't provide support.  
 
There is almost zero threat to Canada despite the call to arms you are referencing. Our minimal footprint there lets you know just how minute the threat really is. If it was significant, we'd have 1000s of boots on the ground: but we don't. This isn't Al Qaeda we are talking about here.  
 
ISIS beef is political, in their region, has nothing to do with us. We can help Syrians and Iraqis and do more good than dropping bombs, at a fraction of the cost as well.  
 
As for the missing women here, Harper ISN'T doing anything, so while in theory he could, he has chosen to spend 100s of millions of dollars in a country other than our own.  
 
But hey he's got us giving up our personal freedoms under Bill C51, and he gets to play wedge politics ... fits his mandate.

I'm going to say is we didn't stand by in ww1 or 2 . To me its the same thing . People are being killed. It's not that complicated. If the world came together and put boots on the ground like they did back then we could wipe them out in no time . Problem is war costs money and lives and no one wants that .

ICYMI said "Not saying we shouldn't provide support.     There is almost zero threat to Canada despite the call to arms you are referencing. Our minimal footprint there lets you know just how minute the threat really is. If it was significant, we'd have 1000s of boots on the ground: but we don't. This isn't Al Qaeda we are talking about here.     ISIS beef is political, in their region, has nothing to do with us. We can help Syrians and Iraqis and do more good than dropping bombs, at a fraction of the cost as well.     As for the missing women here, Harper ISN'T doing anything, so while in theory he could, he has chosen to spend 100s of millions of dollars in a country other than our own.     But hey he's got us giving up our personal freedoms under Bill C51, and he gets to play wedge politics ... fits his mandate. "

And just imagine if we did put 1000's of boots on the ground... what would the reaction be? If we did send troops would that be better in your eyes? Probably not. The reason we have only sent jets its because it would get less people complaining. I think we should send troops to get more done. Why even have an army then?  
 
And again you say it has nothing to do with us and they have said they want attacks on our soil. That sounds like it has something to do with us. And aren't we training troops in Iraq? I could be wrong there.  
 
And the Libs supported bill C51 so why not rag on Trudeau? If you're a lawful Canadian why fear bill C51?  
 
There's always work to do at home but we are a global community more than ever and we have responsibilities and sticking up to ISIS is one of them.  
 
And AGAIN you ignore the question about if you were being terrorized by ISIS would you not want help?

Not about would I want help. I have clearly said we should be contributing something. There is no ignoring, read.  
 
If the threat is real, back it up and put the boots on the ground. That is the point though, the threat isn't real to Canadians, we aren't really endangered by ISIS.  
 
I am a law abiding citizen of the country, I don't need my rights stomped on and impeded under the guise of a minimal terrorist threat. This is the standard, wedge politics BS spin, ala Toews if you aren't with us you are with the pedophiles ... ummmm no, the Feds just don't have a right to spy on me. And ummm if it was Trudeau dropping the bombs, I would rag on him; but it isn't, is it?  
 
Ineffective use of tax dollars in a recession, that is what the current Conservative agenda is in regards to ISIS.

Sometimes I wonder if the Americans would have gotten into the Second World War if it wasn't for the attack on Pearl Harbor. Their are always threats out there but we don't always get involved, there was the communist threat in Vietnam but we sat that out, then there was the war with Iraq, passed on that one as well. As for murdering and rape that happens in all sort of conflicts that we choose to ignore.  
 
When a country decides to go to war it should be for the right reasons and not for politics.

Like to point out Canada was involved in Vietnam and the golf war . Mind you we didn't send combat troops into both regions we still got our hands dirty .  
 
Edited by brandon_guy, 2015-07-16 19:46:25

While they have not made an actual attack on Canadian soil yet. They have called for it in their social media. They have not only called for attacks on Canadian soil, but also on any Canadian abroad. They are trying to recruit Canadians through social media.  
 
And that goes for many other countries/people that oppose their ideologies. They're not just waging war in Iraq and Syria, but through online methods.

Trevor B said "While they have not made an actual attack on Canadian soil yet. They have called for it in their social media. They have not only called for attacks on Canadian soil, but also on any Canadian abroad. They are trying to recruit Canadians through social media.     And that goes for many other countries/people that oppose their ideologies. They're not just waging war in Iraq and Syria, but through online methods. "

That threat is minimal.

ICYMI said "Not about would I want help. I have clearly said we should be contributing something. There is no ignoring, read.     If the threat is real, back it up and put the boots on the ground. That is the point though, the threat isn't real to Canadians, we aren't really endangered by ISIS.     I am a law abiding citizen of the country, I don't need my rights stomped on and impeded under the guise of a minimal terrorist threat. This is the standard, wedge politics BS spin, ala Toews if you aren't with us you are with the pedophiles ... ummmm no, the Feds just don't have a right to spy on me. And ummm if it was Trudeau dropping the bombs, I would rag on him; but it isn't, is it?     Ineffective use of tax dollars in a recession, that is what the current Conservative agenda is in regards to ISIS. "

Like I said Trudeau and the Liberals supported C51 so where is the bashing against the Libs? You can't just rag on the Conservatives when the Liberals voted for the bill.  
 
So there has to be a direct threat to us in order to do something? So what do you think we should be doing there? If you don't think bombing is the answer what is? What can you explain to a radical that would make him or her change their ways? All these people know is violence.  
 
And do you not think that the government is already spying on us? Doesn't matter what government is in power it's been happening forever.  
 
Ineffective use of tax dollars to fight terrorism? What is a good use of tax dollars then? Do you think Trudeau or the NDP will spend any better? Not when you have countless groups and people with their hands out saying "gimmie gimmie" and the liberals are just as bad for backing up the money truck.  
 
How will your rights be stomped on. Give me an example of the things you will no longer be able to do because of bill c51? I imagine life will be no different.  
 
And no... you really didn't answer. Saying we should contribute something isn't the same as saying if you'd want help if you were over there under threat of ISIS. That's your way of not really answering the question.

ICYMI said "    Trevor B said "While they have not made an actual attack on Canadian soil yet. They have called for it in their social media. They have not only called for attacks on Canadian soil, but also on any Canadian abroad. They are trying to recruit Canadians through social media.     And that goes for many other countries/people that oppose their ideologies. They're not just waging war in Iraq and Syria, but through online methods. " That threat is minimal. "

Seriously? Sorry I got to reply again but who the hell cares if it's minimal? DO SOMETHING about it now before it's more than we can handle. Why wait for it to get even worse? Does ISIS have to blow up the CN tower for you to give a sh*T? I guess 2 lives lost to terrorism aren't enough for you to care.  
 
The tax dollars spent on this compared to some other things is minimal.  
 
Edited by KJ2013, 2015-07-16 20:13:40

ICYMI said "    Trevor B said "While they have not made an actual attack on Canadian soil yet. They have called for it in their social media. They have not only called for attacks on Canadian soil, but also on any Canadian abroad. They are trying to recruit Canadians through social media.     And that goes for many other countries/people that oppose their ideologies. They're not just waging war in Iraq and Syria, but through online methods. " That threat is minimal. "

Maybe for now. They could easily escalate it. Trouble is, they could get someone born in Canada who sympathizes with them to carry out an attack. Who knows, there maybe people in Brandon who sympathizes with ISIS.  
 
How long to we leave ISIS and take no action?

I like how the airport screening punishes law abiding people for having an ounce over of face moisturizer, but lets these killers and the lowest of the low pass through. Not sure about that....

KJ2013 said "    ICYMI said "    Trevor B said "While they have not made an actual attack on Canadian soil yet. They have called for it in their social media. They have not only called for attacks on Canadian soil, but also on any Canadian abroad. They are trying to recruit Canadians through social media.     And that goes for many other countries/people that oppose their ideologies. They're not just waging war in Iraq and Syria, but through online methods. " That threat is minimal. " Seriously? Sorry I got to reply again but who the hell cares if it's minimal? DO SOMETHING about it now before it's more than we can handle. Why wait for it to get even worse? Does ISIS have to blow up the CN tower for you to give a sh*T? I guess 2 lives lost to terrorism aren't enough for you to care.     The tax dollars spent on this compared to some other things is minimal.     Edited by KJ2013, 2015-07-16 20:13:40"

This government closed 9 offices that served the Veterans that served us over a few measly million.  
 
We have sacrificed alot by spending well over half a billion dollars dropping bombs.  
 
And ummm yes they would have to actually do something of note, somewhere maybe on let's say the entire North / South American continent for me to "give a sh*T" as you put it.  
 
We have much larger threats, right here, right now .. like a five million litre pipeline spill in AB. Or raging forest fires, homelessness, drug addiction, mental health resources, hey I don't know maybe we could focus on the recession? A person could literally go on, and on, and on with worthy causes that should hold a higher priority than us breaking the bank over a regional conflict, involving a rather poorly organized group in the grand scheme of things. Quit drinking the kool-aid, your more likely to be killed by a moose in Canada then a terrorist.  
 
Knee jerk reactions are rarely the proper call.

Now you're comparing apples with oranges/bananas/grapes/plums & so on & so on.

There are already programs in place to fight all those things but you'll never end them just like we'll never end terrorism so I guess we should just stop fighting because it's a waste of money. *rolls eyes*. After all homelessness and drug addicts are a minimal threat to me or anyone else. See how I'm taking your stance and applying to other things? Sounds ridiculous doesn't it.  
 
So now you're saying unless it happens on our continent it doesn't matter? You sound like a selfish ass who is drinking his own brand of look-aid (red). Maybe the Libs can promise to end homelessness like they did in the 90's.  
 
Seriously read you last post... Lives matter no matter where you are and we have a obligation to stop terror where ever we can. Do we have problems at home? Absolutely. Do we ignore everything else till we fix them? Absolutely not.

Religion based on LIES.  
 
ISIS members believe those lies. Stupid or what?  
 
Religious leaders are psychopaths using scare tactics.  
 
Their motivation is purely economical.  
 
They will NOT STOP. They will use our freedom  
to infiltrate this country too.  
 
Cut off the head of the snake.  
 

KJ2013 said "There are already programs in place to fight all those things but you'll never end them just like we'll never end terrorism so I guess we should just stop fighting because it's a waste of money. *rolls eyes*. After all homelessness and drug addicts are a minimal threat to me or anyone else. See how I'm taking your stance and applying to other things? Sounds ridiculous doesn't it.     So now you're saying unless it happens on our continent it doesn't matter? You sound like a selfish ass who is drinking his own brand of look-aid (red). Maybe the Libs can promise to end homelessness like they did in the 90's.     Seriously read you last post... Lives matter no matter where you are and we have a obligation to stop terror where ever we can. Do we have problems at home? Absolutely. Do we ignore everything else till we fix them? Absolutely not. "

Stop your eye rolling. Drug addicts and homelessness cause way more damage to us than ISIS ever will. Much like this foolish crusade in Syria, those programs could find some inefficiencies to clean up as well.  
 
AND nowhere have I said it doesn't matter, I simply used your divisive, wedge quote about not giving a sh*T, standard fear and smear tactic, it is not a major concern for me. It isn't, that doesn't mean we should do nothing. NEVER have I said that. Just because I don't agree with bombing runs, you think that is the only optin?  
 
Here are my points, since you are not getting it:  
 
1. ISIS poses little to no threat to Canadians.  
2. The bombing run is costly and ineffective.  
 
To the above, I don't want to lose my personal freedoms (Bill C51) under the guise that ISIS is an imminent threat to myself, and my loved ones. AND I would prefer to see a more cost effective contribution in place, with the remaining monies being spent almost anywhere other than there.  
 
Get it?

ICYMI said "    KJ2013 said "There are already programs in place to fight all those things but you'll never end them just like we'll never end terrorism so I guess we should just stop fighting because it's a waste of money. *rolls eyes*. After all homelessness and drug addicts are a minimal threat to me or anyone else. See how I'm taking your stance and applying to other things? Sounds ridiculous doesn't it.     So now you're saying unless it happens on our continent it doesn't matter? You sound like a selfish ass who is drinking his own brand of look-aid (red). Maybe the Libs can promise to end homelessness like they did in the 90's.     Seriously read you last post... Lives matter no matter where you are and we have a obligation to stop terror where ever we can. Do we have problems at home? Absolutely. Do we ignore everything else till we fix them? Absolutely not. " Stop your eye rolling. Drug addicts and homelessness cause way more damage to us than ISIS ever will. Much like this foolish crusade in Syria, those programs could find some inefficiencies to clean up as well.     AND nowhere have I said it doesn't matter, I simply used your divisive, wedge quote about not giving a sh*T, standard fear and smear tactic, it is not a major concern for me. It isn't, that doesn't mean we should do nothing. NEVER have I said that. Just because I don't agree with bombing runs, you think that is the only optin?     Here are my points, since you are not getting it:     1. ISIS poses little to no threat to Canadians.   2. The bombing run is costly and ineffective.     To the above, I don't want to lose my personal freedoms (Bill C51) under the guise that ISIS is an imminent threat to myself, and my loved ones. AND I would prefer to see a more cost effective contribution in place, with the remaining monies being spent almost anywhere other than there.     Get it? "

You're wrong about Isis posing little to no threat. If no mining isn't working (cause you're an expert and not saying I am either) what does? What would you do?  
 
And you keep bitching about c51 but seems I just blame Harper for it when I've brought up that the Liberals backed the bill.  
 
I didn't say ISIS did more damage than drug addicts etc, I said terrorism as a whole. What if the Toronto 5 actually followed thru with their plan? Not that I'm saying it's right but I bet spying and playing loose with privacy laws helped to some extent to stop that from happening.  
 
And I will keep saying you don't give a sh*t because I get the impression you don't think terrorism is a threat to us. Whackos live in this country. Remember air India where over 300 hundred people were killed? That was terrorism. It does and can originate here. I'm willing to give up freedoms to fight it. Like I've said, I've got nothing to hide so I'm not concerned.

and understand we are now living in a whole different world. One life lost to ISIS or it's sympathizers is one life too many!  
 
 
http://news.nationalpost.com/news/world/isis-urges-jihadists-to-attack-canadians-you-will-not-feel-secure-in-your-bedrooms  
 
"In a 42-minute audio speech, Abu Muhammad Al-Adnani urged ISIS supporters to kill Canadians, Americans, Australians, French and other Europeans, regardless of whether they were civilians or members of the military.  
 
“Rely upon Allah, and kill him in any manner or way however it may be. Do not ask for anyone’s advice and do not seek anyone’s verdict. Kill the disbeliever whether he is civilian or military, for they have the same ruling,” he said.  
 
“Both of them are disbelievers. Both of them are considered to be waging war. Both of their blood and wealth is legal for you to destroy, for blood does not become illegal or legal to spill by the clothes being worn.”

I find it ignorant that some people believe that ISIS would need to act on our soil for it to mean anything. I guess the deaths in Ottawa and Quebec recently meant bugger all.  
 
Those attacks were carried out by ISIS sympathizers and, were therefore, the result of ISIS.  
 
ISIS hasn't affected Canadians. BS and shame on you.  
 
There are other problems we need to work on but ISIS requires some attention.  
 
Edited by CommonTater, 2015-07-17 08:57:59

I believe that there are much bigger threats to our society than ISIS.  
 
Much of this is governments trying to tell the people that they should be afraid, and that the only people who can keep you safe are the same ones who are telling you to be afraid.  
 
If the murders in Quebec and Ottawa had been committed by some misguided Christians, would people be calling for the same kinds of retribution ? Would we be profiling Christians because of the deranged actions of a few ? Why have we not reacted the same way to the Catholic church considering the number of children who have been molested by a small number of their clergy ?  
 
For those of you who so stridently believe that "someone" should do "something", what have you done ? Did you recently join the military ? Have you convinced your children to join ? We get so comfortable sitting in Canada wanting someone else to do something to address our concerns.  
 
Think about those in government who are trying to invoke fear. Do you think that they are sending their children overseas to deal with it ? Think about the same kind of fear-mongering in the US over Iraq having WMD's. Did any of those politicians send their children to be part of the front-line boots on the ground ? Are we any safer today because of all of those who were sent ?  
 
If you so strongly believe that there is a serious threat, you need to do much more that don your keyboard warrior garb.

I didn't say that ISIS was the only threat we faced. I did not say that ISIS is the only problem we should address. I am supporting our government and the majority of the world by agreeing something must be done. We wouldn't profile Christians just as we, hopefully, aren't profiling Muslims.  
 
I don't agree with every aspect of the anti terror legislation and I am smart enough to realize there likely is no legislation on earth that would satisfy everyone on everything. However, it is much better, IMO, than trying to say ISIS is a non issue.  
 
Edited by CommonTater, 2015-07-17 13:20:14

Those dreamers, predominantly on the left, want us to believe that there's no such thing as radical Islamic terrorism. They like to refer to incidents that have nothing to do with radical Islam as being terrorist acts, but, it seems, will always try to claim that any terrorist acts carried out in the name of ISIS or Al Quieda had nothing to do with terrorism.  
 
Everyone of these radical Islamic terrorist groups have one thing in common. They are all in favour of using violence to promote worldwide Jihad. If you disagree with that comment, then prove it. Show me one of these terrorist groups that doesn't believe in worldwide Jihad.  
 
 
 
 
 
Edited by Triplethreat, 2015-07-17 13:30:58

So because I believe it's a serious threat I should become a solider? I think I can believe in something without having to do that.  
 
I did consider it in my early 20's when 9-11 happened but was talked out of it which is something I regret but I'm probably too old to be of use now.  
 
Props to those who do have the balls to don a uniform and fight.