Discussions

JackAzz said "You obviously have your own agenda here and aren't really interested in debating the topic at hand. I find your comparison pretty rediculous. "

Pointing out that ALL religions have their "violent" sides and that a person's perspective of what is good and bad, violent and normal, or accepted and tolerated is governed by that person's society.  
 
If a Christian were to slaughter a group of Muslims in North America would he be a hero in your eyes? Do you agree that the K.K.K. had the right to torture and kill anyone not "white". Do you agree that the US government's near genocide of the native population was needed? If so, you are no better than the people you are condemning.  
 
I am glad I am not a religious person and I find MOST that are are not tolerant of others

Cee Jay 55 said "    JackAzz said "You obviously have your own agenda here and aren't really interested in debating the topic at hand. I find your comparison pretty rediculous. " Pointing out that ALL religions have their "violent" sides and that a person's perspective of what is good and bad, violent and normal, or accepted and tolerated is governed by that person's society.     If a Christian were to slaughter a group of Muslims in North America would he be a hero in your eyes? Do you agree that the K.K.K. had the right to torture and kill anyone not "white". Do you agree that the US government's near genocide of the native population was needed? If so, you are no better than the people you are condemning.     I am glad I am not a religious person and I find MOST that are are not tolerant of others "

The thing is, there aren't Christians slaughtering Muslims in North America and the KKK's mantra was racially motivated, not religously. People bring up the Crusades, well that was 1000 years ago! The point is, in today's society, there is a fringe or extemist faction of one religion that is murdering innocent people every single day in the name of Islam. Hundreds of them. Every day. Our wonderful new government has chosen to turn a blind eye, and many other apologists seem to want to make excuses and say the majority are peaceful but that doesn't change anything.  
 
If I turned on the news every single day and saw that Buddists or Hindus were beheading westerners, bombing innocent people or shooting up public gatherings I would condemn them just them same. But guess what, those things just aren't happening. Its the same religion, for the past 20 years, that has declared Jihad on non-believers and commited mass-murders and atrocities. You can bring up the past in some attempt to make it ok but it doesn't. Its like saying that lots of people have robbed banks in the past so its ok for me to rob one today. It doesnt make it right, and there's still no excuse for it.

JackAzz: you keep stating that comparisons to the genocide and child abuse perpetrated by church and state on little children here in canada when talking about whether Islam is a violent religion are ridiculous. I don't think anything about it is ridiculous. You've stated that Cee Jay 55 has their own agenda, well you seem you do as well.  
I don't think anyone is condoning violence, just showing that all religions have violence in their history, and that is RECENT history. Residential schools weren't 1000 years ago. Neither were the most recent crusades actually (ending 725 years ago). As for the KKK, their rhetoric and identity was fiercely protestant as well as racist, definitely religious. DEFINITELY.  
As for me, I DO see violence by purported Christians in the news every day. For instance, regardless of the legal seperation of church and state, the US is actually a Christian state, there is constant pious prayer and references to god by their governmental representatives. The violence done by the government of the United States, including their covert groups such as the CIA, in recent times, is appalling. So are Americans inherently violent?

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. The OP was whether Islam is a violent religion. The only argument you can come up with is that other religions have been violent in the past too. I guess in your mind that makes it ok. Canada had residenial schools, so go ahead and keep slaughtering innocent folks for Allah. Makes perfect sense.

Take for instance the Westboro Baptist Church in the US who disrupt and protest at the funerals of fallen soldiers. This group also came to Canada to protest same-sex-marriage and burned the Canadian flag. This is a very small group but they do know how to make headlines. This group has been denounced by most Christian groups. Sadly, there are many fringe elements with extreme views in all religions. Check out this little message from their website  
http://fstdt.com/QuoteComment.aspx?QID=29089

Tater & Cee Jay 55.  
 
Some members of Christianity are violent and murderous such as KKK members, but to my knowledge they didn't use verses from the bible to substantiate their killings and hatred towards blacks. Where in the bible does it say that blacks must be lynched when found? There are radical Christians groups, given, but they're not a threat to society or the world at large. Islam is on a totally different level where they're seeking to establish Sharia law worldwide and use the Koran to justify their atrocities and brainwash millions of their followers worldwide. Such is not the case with Christianity, not even close! As for the residential schools; like it or not, Canada's intentions were good. I truly believe they wanted to give native children the same opportunity as any other child. This occured during a time when religion was much stronger in Canada and religious individuals were put in power regarding res schools. Times were different back then, violence was the way to discipline. Abuse by officials occured in res schools, reform schools, regular schools and churches by priests, etc. I blame that violence on the individuals that commited those crimes as they weren't using the bible to justify their actions. As for res schools, i think today they are still required, in some form anyway. There is little hope for native kids on reserves and it's because those reserves in many cases are isolated. It's unrealistic to have the services of large cities spread to each community accross Canada. So these kids and adults living in isolation are for the most part depressed, that's my opinion cause I know I'd be depressed living in such remoteness. I know this is off topic, but will give my res school two cents worth anyway. My kind of res school would be to educate native children off reserve during the week. Have it run by indigenous groups. The status quo of living 24/7 on a reserve is litteraly killing native kids and something pro-active must be done outside of throwing more money on reserves.

Is a very big factor in the wars all over the world .  
We should get rid of it all.. But then we can't hide behind something for our own actions .  
 
As for guns . Destroy them all . I love the "passionate" hunters everywhere that "need" those kind of guns to hunt...  
If you really like to harvest a animal then you go out with bow and arrow and respect animals and nature the way we should. Instead of blowing stuff up for fun...

70’s Guy- the KKK most certainly DID use bible verse to support their ideology, regardless of whether you were aware of it or not. Religious groups of all kinds use the bible or other religious texts to justify keeping people from their rights and freedoms. The bible was used as an excuse to keep women from the vote, for instance, and it was also used to argue that women SHOULD have the vote. The intentions of the residential schools ABSOLUTELY included destroying indigenous culture.

Tater said "70’s Guy- the KKK most certainly DID use bible verse to support their ideology, regardless of whether you were aware of it or not. Religious groups of all kinds use the bible or other religious texts to justify keeping people from their rights and freedoms. The bible was used as an excuse to keep women from the vote, for instance, and it was also used to argue that women SHOULD have the vote. The intentions of the residential schools ABSOLUTELY included destroying indigenous culture. "

Please direct me to what passages in the bible support killing blacks. I don't think any such writings exist. In any event, I'm not here to say that Christians have never taken the bible out of context. The subject of this thread is in regards to Islam. Is it a violent religion or not? It's difficult to argue that Islam is a religion of peace when so much hatred and violence is committed around the world today. No doubt it breeds violence. Another question Tater.... Have you ever seen a wave of violence by Christians against non Christians going on simultaneously around the globe? No, I didn't think so! Radical Islam is here Tater, all around us.  
It's the New World!!!!

Tater or CeeJay tell me whether they would rather be taken hostage by ISIS in the name of Islam or by Gov/Church and sent to a residential school.  
 
Residential schools were not a good thing but to put them in context with the atrocities that go on around the world is crazy.  
 
The least priveledged Canadian that has no money, is the wrong color or race (some of you seem to think being of the wrong race or color is a huge detriment) add on they could have loser parents and be physically abused would still be more priveledged than half the world.  
 
We don't know how good we have it and I mean everyone. Perfect? No, but a lot better than most.

JackAzz said "    Cee Jay 55 said "    JackAzz said "You obviously have your own agenda here and aren't really interested in debating the topic at hand. I find your comparison pretty rediculous. " Pointing out that ALL religions have their "violent" sides and that a person's perspective of what is good and bad, violent and normal, or accepted and tolerated is governed by that person's society.     If a Christian were to slaughter a group of Muslims in North America would he be a hero in your eyes? Do you agree that the K.K.K. had the right to torture and kill anyone not "white". Do you agree that the US government's near genocide of the native population was needed? If so, you are no better than the people you are condemning.     I am glad I am not a religious person and I find MOST that are are not tolerant of others " The thing is, there aren't Christians slaughtering Muslims in North America and the KKK's mantra was racially motivated, not religously. People bring up the Crusades, well that was 1000 years ago! The point is, in today's society, there is a fringe or extemist faction of one religion that is murdering innocent people every single day in the name of Islam. Hundreds of them. Every day. Our wonderful new government has chosen to turn a blind eye, and many other apologists seem to want to make excuses and say the majority are peaceful but that doesn't change anything.     If I turned on the news every single day and saw that Buddists or Hindus were beheading westerners, bombing innocent people or shooting up public gatherings I would condemn them just them same. But guess what, those things just aren't happening. Its the same religion, for the past 20 years, that has declared Jihad on non-believers and commited mass-murders and atrocities. You can bring up the past in some attempt to make it ok but it doesn't. Its like saying that lots of people have robbed banks in the past so its ok for me to rob one today. It doesnt make it right, and there's still no excuse for it. "

You must be my ex-wife. You twisted my words to make it sound like I said something I did not... and obviously you are always right, even though I am not arguing, more like shaking my head in disbelief.  
 
I never said I was OK with Muslims killing people. I was simply pointing out that Christians are just as capable of committing violent acts as well as any other religion.  
 
And don't fool yourself, the be-headings and other executions you see are more politically motivated than by religion.

Shebear, you said that “Alot of muslim men view western women as lesser than their muslim women.... now dont go calling me a islamaphobic thats not even a proper word, as most people dont have a irrational fear of muslims, its the behaviour or some of their ways that are disliked.” Reading this, I questioned whether you are aware of the fact that there are muslim women who were born and raised in the Western world. Many are Canadians by birth. To be a Muslim is to follow the Islamic faith. Religion is not restricted by race. Therefore, saying that, “Alot of muslim men will marry white women to obtain visas and this isnt any racist crap its fact. “ is actually a very racist statement. It restricts members of the religion to being inclusive of all races which are non-Caucasian. Interesting, many members of the Caucasian race are Muslim. I strongly encourage you to invest in educating yourself, in order to avoid further ignorance.

Cee Jay 55 said "    JackAzz said "    Cee Jay 55 said "Spanish Inquisition     Residential Schools     both were creations of the christian faith in the name of "God"/Jesus. " Seriously this has nothing to do with whether Islam is violent. Were residential schools a bad idea, and was violence perpitrated against some who were placed in them? Yes, of course. But you need to keep in mind that they were genuinely set up at the time to do what they thought would be most beneficial to society and the students. They were wrong and mis-guided, but this can in no way be compared to the daily atrocities carried out in the name of Islam. Not even close. They aren't trying to educate non-believers, they're murdering them. " Do some research - those children were brutalized by "Christians" in the name of "God"... "

all children were brutalized back in that era - it was not only the native children who were traumatized, brutally attacked - check out the Capital Punishment done at all the Schools in Manitoba at that time. It was just something that society felt was OK to do the children at that time. So, please look at the facts, and stop thinking it only happened to native children. I personally lived it - so I can write a book on it too - and complain forever about it - and blame others for traumatizing me too . . . I was in fact present when my white man teacher used an extension cord, and beat/whipped the only Black student present in our school at that time, he beat him repeatedly in front of all of us - - - for some reason that was OK to do during class time - and I grew up in the Mennonite culture, in the Bible Belt area of Manitoba . . . and you want me to go into the suppression of Women - do some research in the Old Order Mennonite theology/ways - and see how women were/are suppressed based on "Religion" - and trust me, the Rod is not spared especially in the "Bible Belt" regions of this province. . . so do not think it was/is only the Native Children who are/were being brutalized . . .  
 
and really, as for whether Islams are violent, I truly have no idea - but I sure know Christians are Violent - thank you for posting this thread OP - and thank you Adam for allowing us to discuss this issue here.  
 
Edited by whatthewhat, 2016-06-18 01:29:26

Whatthewhat, I assumed that your comment on residential schools was going to be enlightening, until I read, "but this can in no way be compared to the daily atrocities carried out in the name of Islam. Not even close. They aren't trying to educate non-believers, they're murdering them." Do you truly believe that the intent of residential schools was to "educate non believers"? How can you deny the generational abuse that has oppressed an entire race? How can raping and degrading children act as evidence of education? Not to mention attempted genocide through vaccine as explained by Global News only a few months ago.  
 
http://globalnews.ca/news/2503875/what-happened-to-jim-experiments-on-canadas-indigenous-populations/  
 
Here is a more hopeful message comparing Indigenous populations with Islam.  
 
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/muslim-indigenous-fast-break-bread-together-1.3639240?cmp=abfb

whatthewhat... I was in school back in "those days" - I am not young. I only remeber ever seeing one person in my class ever get the strap (on his hands) and that was for beating up/bullying a smaller child. My brother once got the strap for swearing in class, he said it barely hurt.  
 
I was not brutalized and I don't recall any of my friends being subject to brutality in school either. I once had a teacher pull my hair because he thought it was too long (1969), he ended up losing his job because of his "aggresive" behaviour, but again, no brutality.  
 
We were not forcibly taken from our homes and sent to some cold brick building hundreds of miles away. We were not sexually, physically and mentally abused. There is a reason the government apologized for the existence of residential schools and paid restitution to the victims (their own words) of suffering brought on by this once accepted institution.  
 
I am not arguing this point. I made my point much to some of your distaste: bottom line: Christians can be violent and brutal as can people of any religion: usually radicals and extremists. You cannot judge and condemn an entire religious group based on the behaviour of a few.

SparkyJones said "If the native populations of North, central and South America's asked the same question about Christianity? Maybe the civilian Japanese population of Hiroshima and Nagasaki asked the same question about the religion of the president that slaughtered their cities? How soon we forget the atrocities committed by the faith of the Holy Bible!     Is Islam a violent religion?     No more violent than Christianity friends... "

The key difference is that the events you mention happen to be carried out by Christians, not "in the name" of Christianity. Its a huge difference.

I think it applies here.  
 
A disturbed Muslim commits an atrocity, and the religion is to blame.  
 
A disturbed black person commits an atrocity, and the race is to blame.  
 
A disturbed white person commits an atrocity, and a disturbed white person is to blame.

standard standard h8r said "I think it applies here.     A disturbed Muslim commits an atrocity, and the religion is to blame.     A disturbed black person commits an atrocity, and the race is to blame.     A disturbed white person commits an atrocity, and a disturbed white person is to blame. "

40 bombings by Radical muslims in the Philipines in the last 15 years.  
Boko Haram terrorizing Nigeria daily  
Taliban ruthlessness in Afghanistan  
Sharia Law problems in Pakistan http://www.cbsnews.com/news/pakistan-sharia-islamic-council-law-abuse-women-violence-islam/  
More moderate Saudi Arabia and Sharia Law http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=:598_1457227209  
ISIS atrocities and the spread of hatredand fear worldwide  
France, Belgium, US killings in the name of Islam!  
 
Yes, only a few deranged Muslims, nothing to do with the core religion.  
You may be right standard standard. My vision of world events must be out of focus. Obviously, religion is not the issue and we can sleep well! Especially, those of us not on the kill list that ISIS has requested that individuals carry out at will.  
 
Edited by 70`s guy, 2016-06-19 22:25:33

is Islam a "inherently" violent religion? absolutely it is. This answer is not based on the action of those practicing Islam but on the very book it is based on. There will always be groups of a religion that will stray from the Words of that book that it is based on, be it to one extreme or the other.  
Those groups have however strayed from the teaching to the Quran, as the plain teaching of the text is to torture and kill infidels, Jews, Christians, and nonbelievers. If you don't believe me go read the Quran yourselves. It tends to be more tolerant at the beginning but the later books are much more violent.  
 
I i:ncluded the word inherently in my question on purpose. So I can go back to the source of the religion and its teaching rather than how various different groups decide it should be.  
 
So since Christianity has been brought up and compared in this discussion I will do the same. However I will ask the same question so I can skip to the source of the religion rather than how different groups believe it should be.  
 
Is Christianity a "inherently" violent religion? No it is not "Inherently" violent. Christians by definition are followers of Christ. Was Jesus a violent person? No. Did Jesus Teach violence? No. Were any of the followers of Jesus Violent That we can read about in the new testament? No, they died violent deaths by those persecuting them, but they themselves were not violent. So If you Follow The teachings and acts of a person who was not Violent nor taught violence than neither is the religion inherently violent.  
 
Do violent groups of Christianity exist? Yes, but every one of those groups, past or present Have departed one way or another from the teaching of Jesus. The Roman Catholic Church, The Church of England, The Christian nation of America, Have all strayed from the teaching of Jesus and using them for examples might works if your trying to prove Christians who don't follow the teaching of Jesus do violent things, But it doesn't work if you are trying to prove Christians following the teaching of Jesus do violent things.

Well people who post the violent verses have their posts moderated so you are on your own for finding the verses, it isn't hard though