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Martin Scorsese's ";Silence"; and the Persecution of Christians

Martin Scorsese's ";Silence"; and the Persecution of Christians

Committed2Brandon
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 96

Committed2Brandon
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 96

Martin Scorsese's ";Silence"; and the Persecution of Christians
10/28/2019 at 1:13 AM

Recently I had the opportunity to watch an exceptionally well made movie produced by Martin Scorsese. 'Silence' was made in 2013 and features excellent acting by some big names, including Andrew Garfield (Spider Man, the Social Network), Adam Driver (Kylo Ren in Star Wars), Ciaran Hinds (Harry Potter, Game of Thrones) and Liam Neeson.

The movie centers around the Jesuit missionaries in Japan during the 17th century and the persecution Christians faced in that country at the time. It was by and far one of the best Christian movies that I ever had an opportunity to watch.

I have to wonder at the slow and progressively increasing persecution that Christians will be facing in our country. Our prime minister Justin Trudeau was just elected to lead our country (though this time with a minority government) for another term.

On June 4 of this year, Trudeau announced that if re-elected, the Government of Canada would increase their spending on “international sexual, reproductive, maternal, newborn and child health,” until reaching a total of $1.4 billion annually in 2023, meaning for the most part abortion related acts.

Just last year the Trudeau government attempted to force their will on anyone seeking assistance through the Canada Summer Jobs Program to get participants to sign an attestation stating that their core mandate agrees to a number of left-wing positions, including a right to abortion. We're slowly and continuously starting to see more and more decisions from the government that are pushing Christians and their beliefs to the fringes of society, and if history is any lesson to us, with that will come oppression and eventually persecution.

I have to wonder, in the past centuries millions of Christians were prepared to die for their faith rather then deny it, just as was well portrayed in 'Silence'. Even to this day the persecution and martyrdom of Christians is sadly happening throughout many areas of the world.

In Canada, has it come to pass that for many, our Christians hearts have been so eroded that we have simply let the anti-Christians institutions destroy our sense of faith in God? What does Brandon think?
PT1001
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 779

PT1001
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 779

~
10/28/2019 at 6:48 AM

I take it that you are not pro-choice and against Canada being an ally with it's at home and global support in regard to women's rights and gender equality.

Supporting and investing in women and girls’ health, and protecting their health rights is an advancement for many nations around the globe, including our own .
Young girls and women are still dying from all over the world from unsafe situations.

As recorded, in developing countries, 214 million women have an unmet need for modern contraception.

Each year, 25 million unsafe abortions take place due to stigma and restrictions to access of safe medical treatment.

The recent 'Women Deliver' conference held this year in Canada apparently brought together more than 8,000 world leaders, advocates, academics, and journalists from more than 160 countries. An additional 100,000 people participated virtually.

I'm sorry that you feel the eroding Christian heart and belief of other people that don't have the passion you do may be destroying a sense of faith in God. That's your business, but is not the view of all.

You seem to be speaking for all Christians in saying 'We'.

To me, the Christian way ~ wait...the HUMAN way would be to support women with their reproductive rights where they may not have the means or when faith or their surroundings prevents them from doing so.

People in general will never win a religious discussion, particularly when it is perceived as preachy or 'my way is the only way'.

This is my take and others may think differently. That is what makes the world interesting. Living in a diplomatic society with a freedom to choose is a wonderful thing.
Hey!
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 284

Hey!
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 284

.
10/28/2019 at 7:19 AM

Do you think most of the sexual, reproductive, maternal, newborn and child health money in Canada goes to abortions? I suspect the education and resources prevent far more abortions and illness than they create.
RantsFromAfar
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 283

RantsFromAfar
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 283

An interesting exercise...
10/28/2019 at 8:35 AM

Here is an interesting exercise. Go to https://gisapp.brandon.ca/webmaps/taxassessment/ and bring up the address of somewhere that you know to be a church or other place of worship. Take a look at the total taxes. Then, click around on the surrounding properties. Take a note of their taxes.

Compare.

When the churches start paying taxes comparable to their neighbours, I'll consider listening to arguments suggesting persecution. (Although I suspect it will be examples of religion losing its "special privileges" and being treated equally)
Traluks
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 58

Traluks
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 58

Just saying
10/28/2019 at 10:07 AM

The fine for destroying the eggs of a bald eagle is about $250,000.00. Destroying the eggs of sea turtles the fine is about $100,000.00. Killing a baby inside his/her mother's womb.... no fine.
PrimeConvoy

Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 561

PrimeConvoy
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 561

That's completely different
10/28/2019 at 12:08 PM

Traluks said "The fine for destroying the eggs of a bald eagle is about $250,000.00. Destroying the eggs of sea turtles the fine is about $100,000.00. Killing a baby inside his/her mother's womb.... no fine. "
You're talking about cross species genocide. If a turtle decides to have an abortion, no human will get in the way.

Apples and oranges.
GetRec'd
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 234

GetRec'd
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 234

...
10/28/2019 at 4:14 PM

Still just spamming, eh C2B?

This is super annoying. Please, save the baloney for Fakebook. I mean Facebook.
PowerOfaMom
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 416

PowerOfaMom
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 416

interesting
10/28/2019 at 8:56 PM

I always find it so interesting when I hear Christians talk about the "persecution " they have/will face, when in fact if you look at the history of this modern day Christianity (any denominational church) they have killed, martyred, destroyed, pillaged, ransacked, killed, executed and persecuted hundreds of thousands of people over a fake "Jesus" and to push a religion that has very little to do with what is preached in the bible, and what the apostles were persecuted for. I have very little sympathy for the downfall of organized religion, for the simple fact that the history that the Christian church completely built its foundation on destroying and killing others if they didn't share the same belief as them and their pagan ways (yes! Modern day Christianity is primarily based off of pagan worship, google it!) what you sow you will reap. And before people start claiming I am something I am not, I am a follower of Christ, but I'll be damned if I would support any Christian church and the lies they have spread . I really wish people would start researching what they believe in before they are "persecuted " because of a religion that has lied to you for hundreds of years.
Farmergeorge
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 1837

Farmergeorge
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 1837

Hmmm
10/28/2019 at 9:39 PM

PowerOfaMom said "I always find it so interesting when I hear Christians talk about the "persecution " they have/will face, when in fact if you look at the history of this modern day Christianity (any denominational church) they have killed, martyred, destroyed, pillaged, ransacked, killed, executed and persecuted hundreds of thousands of people over a fake "Jesus" and to push a religion that has very little to do with what is preached in the bible, and what the apostles were persecuted for. I have very little sympathy for the downfall of organized religion, for the simple fact that the history that the Christian church completely built its foundation on destroying and killing others if they didn't share the same belief as them and their pagan ways (yes! Modern day Christianity is primarily based off of pagan worship, google it!) what you sow you will reap. And before people start claiming I am something I am not, I am a follower of Christ, but I'll be damned if I would support any Christian church and the lies they have spread . I really wish people would start researching what they believe in before they are "persecuted " because of a religion that has lied to you for hundreds of years. "
Extreme Followers of all of the major religions have at some point been guilty of these crimes, usually due to misinterpretation of said religion. This misinterpretation causes suffering and conflict even today around the world, a great shame. I am not religious but I have faith. I am pretty sure something was written about forgiveness and love thy neighbour.
Traluks
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 58

Traluks
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 58

I totally agree!
10/29/2019 at 12:53 AM

PRIMECONVOY said: "You're talking about cross species genocide. If a turtle decides to have an abortion, no human will get in the way.

Apples and oranges. "

You used the word GENOCIDE! I rest my case. You have said it well. Thank you for at least being honest about the subject of abortion. I totally agree with you, abortion is indeed genocide.
Traluks
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 58

Traluks
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 58

Freedom of speach and association
10/29/2019 at 1:11 AM

GREATSCOTT said: "Good luck handing a $250,000.00 fine to a bald eagle or $100,000.00 fine to a sea turtle for killing their eggs. A woman has a right to choose for herself and it's none of your business."

Unlike human beings, bald eagles and sea turtles are doing their utmost to protect their unhatched offspring. Nobody in his/her right mind will impose a fine on an animal! In case you did not get it. The point is that humans caught in the act of destroying the unhatched eggs of sea turtles or bald eagles are getting steep fines BUT is allowed to legally kill their own unborn babies.

And also if I am making it my business to point it out that our government values animal life far more than human life there is nothing you can do about it. Since I have freedom of speech protected by the Canadian Charter of Rights nobody can silence me when I am pointing out the truth of the matter.

Is it maybe so that the truth hurts?
MEPETAMINALS
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 22

MEPETAMINALS
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 22

.
10/29/2019 at 8:15 AM

Traluks said "GREATSCOTT said: "Good luck handing a $250,000.00 fine to a bald eagle or $100,000.00 fine to a sea turtle for killing their eggs. A woman has a right to choose for herself and it's none of your business."

Unlike human beings, bald eagles and sea turtles are doing their utmost to protect their unhatched offspring. Nobody in his/her right mind will impose a fine on an animal! In case you did not get it. The point is that humans caught in the act of destroying the unhatched eggs of sea turtles or bald eagles are getting steep fines BUT is allowed to legally kill their own unborn babies.

And also if I am making it my business to point it out that our government values animal life far more than human life there is nothing you can do about it. Since I have freedom of speech protected by the Canadian Charter of Rights nobody can silence me when I am pointing out the truth of the matter.

Is it maybe so that the truth hurts? "
I mean regardless of your religious beliefs on the matter, the simple reason those are both fined is because both are endangered species, destroying their eggs can have a significant impact on the species survival in a pretty demonstrable way. Ignoring ongoing climate collapse, humans are not currently endangered. Also worth noting your talking about destroying another's offspring vs your own future offspring.

To be honest the biggest thing about these arguments that anger me is the idea that granting freedoms to one group (women in this case) is seen as 'persecution' to Christians.

As far as the OP is concerned, you can make the argument that christians in general are being persecuted, but you didn't, you jumped straight on abortion and sexual freedoms, which I think tells everyone all they need to know about your motivations, and frankly, if losing your right to impose your will upon other's bodies counts as persecution, then this persecution has been well earned.

Edited by MEPETAMINALS, 2019-10-29 08:18:48
bryology101
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 215

bryology101
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 215

boom
10/29/2019 at 8:40 AM

MEPETAMINALS said "I mean regardless of your religious beliefs on the matter, the simple reason those are both fined is because both are endangered species, destroying their eggs can have a significant impact on the species survival in a pretty demonstrable way. Ignoring ongoing climate collapse, humans are not currently endangered. Also worth noting your talking about destroying another's offspring vs your own future offspring.

To be honest the biggest thing about these arguments that anger me is the idea that granting freedoms to one group (women in this case) is seen as 'persecution' to Christians.

As far as the OP is concerned, you can make the argument that christians in general are being persecuted, but you didn't, you jumped straight on abortion and sexual freedoms, which I think tells everyone all they need to know about your motivations, and frankly, if losing your right to impose your will upon other's bodies counts as persecution, then this persecution has been well earned.

Edited by MEPETAMINALS, 2019-10-29 08:18:48"
*mic drop*
JeffreyKlamore
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JeffreyKlamore
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Posts: 16

Persevere stay strong
10/29/2019 at 9:14 AM

Don't let the wickedness of this world get you down. There will come a time when all people will know the truth. Jesus reminds us:

If the world hate you, you know that it hated me before it hated you.
If you were of the world, the world would love his own: but because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.
Remember the word that I said to you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you: if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.
But all these things will they do to you for my name' sake, because they know not him that sent me.
If I had not come and spoken to them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloak for their sin.
He that hates me hates my Father also.
If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father.
But this comes to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause.
John 15:18-25
Spaghetti Monster
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1909

Spaghetti Monster
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1909

Yes....
10/29/2019 at 9:27 AM

....do not let wickedness get you down. FSM will touch the non believers with his noodley appendage and sauce. His meat balls are large and pulse for all regardless of their penchants.

“To be a good follower of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, ye should drink much meade and surround Pastafarianism Countries yerself with as many buxom wenches as possible.” “Accept His Noodly Magnificence into your heart, into your soul, and ye shall forever be free. “R'Amen.”
Spaghetti Monster
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1909

Spaghetti Monster
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1909

The Dude Abides
10/29/2019 at 9:33 AM

"We don't need heroic figures to lead us to a promised land. We need Dudeists to help us abide where we are." Relax, don't worry, and let life be good, because it will be if you leave a space for it.

The Dude
JeffreyKlamore
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JeffreyKlamore
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Posts: 16

Thanks for the reply
10/29/2019 at 9:37 AM

Spaghetti Monster said "....do not let wickedness get you down. FSM will touch the non believers with his noodley appendage and sauce. His meat balls are large and pulse for all regardless of their penchants.

“To be a good follower of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, ye should drink much meade and surround Pastafarianism Countries yerself with as many buxom wenches as possible.” “Accept His Noodly Magnificence into your heart, into your soul, and ye shall forever be free. “R'Amen.” "
I have heard a lot worse. Many people have felt like that, but often times a person needs to reach drop bottom before truth sinks in. I have been there..

Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. Matthew 5:11
PowerOfaMom
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 416

PowerOfaMom
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 416

Research
10/29/2019 at 9:50 AM

Sherbear:) said "All fairness there has been bad stuff done by past churches (and diff religions) ....Im interested in hearing in how the Jesus of christianity is fake and different from the bible. Im open to hearing about this and how christians have been lied to all these years. Not into arguing just learning from someone with a diff view. I saw pagan symbols in a huge cathedral in Europe, and know diff christian holidays have pagan things in them. So some feel true christians shouldnt celebrate them and others think no harm in it. I think our calendar months and days of the week are based on pagan stuff....maybe Im wrong.

Edited by Sherbear:), 2019-10-28 22:01:16"
It's hard to pin point what is true about modern day Christianity. The fundamentals are wrong. For example Trinity is not biblical and was never believed or preached in the bible and wasn't even recognized as a thing prior to then13th century, then if you take a look in King James Bible (other bibles have removed it) it will even state that 1 John 5:8 was added to the bible to promote trinitarianism . I will quote the bible word for word.... "Late manus:cripts of the Vulgate testify in heaven: the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one. 8 And there are three that testify on earth: the(not found in any Greek manus:cript before the fourteenth century)." How surprising to realize that a verse was added to the bible to promote an idea that was made by a man.

In fact in 1697 there was a law passed in England that if anyone who rejected the idea of trinity they lose employment, jailed, beaten, burned or hung.... let's remember back that the first "Christians" never preached trinity, it was the "Christian church" that started this all.

Tithing has nothing to do with money, but everything to do with food! Churches definitely don't preach that today!

All mainstream holidays are completely entangled in pagan worship it's actually sickening if you realize why you have the "traditions" you do, and what it actually came from. I'll attach a video that is intriguing even those who aren't Christians should watch, but if you are a Christian WATCH IT! Fascinating.

I could honestly talk for hours about it, but honestly take some time an do some research, it's actually really amazing to learn some very very interesting things.

Here is an article about trinity:

https://www.ucg.org/bible-study-tools/booklets/is-god-a-trinity/how-ancient-trinitarian-gods-influenced-adoption-of-the-trinity

Here is a fascinating video about the two main Christian holidays:

My link isn't working but if you go to YouTube and search " pagan origins of Easter and Christmas exposed - truth or tradition by Jim staley" it's a good video with lots of proof.

you want to ask any more questions shoot me a PM. Very few people actually do research, but I hope you do! Happy learning!

Edited by PowerOfaMom, 2019-10-29 09:54:42
Traluks
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 58

Traluks
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 58

Mepetaminals said:
10/29/2019 at 9:54 AM

"To be honest the biggest thing about these arguments that anger me is the idea that granting freedoms to one group (women in this case) is seen as 'persecution' to Christians. "

I would like to agree with you on this. Granting women the right to kill their babies in the womb can not be seen as persecution aimed at Christians.

Christians do not kill their unborn babies. Period.

From a human point of view, the law giving women the right to kill their offspring is a good law, because it will keep the numbers of the liberals and unbelievers low.
Spaghetti Monster
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1909

Spaghetti Monster
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1909

And there it is.
10/29/2019 at 9:58 AM

The true nature of Christianity is shown in all its glory.
Traluks
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 58

Traluks
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 58

Puddle Jumper
10/29/2019 at 10:18 AM

Let me give you one example of Christian persecution in our country.

Not so long ago (less than a year) the highest court in Canada agreed to the fact that students who studied law at Trinity West University (A Christian university) will not be allowed to practice law in all of Canada! The fear is that Christian lawyers might be biased towards abortionists and same sex marriages etc.

But, I dare say that I would like to dare the high court to lay down the same argument regarding any Muslim university. The Jihadis will be running rampant in this country!
JeffreyKlamore
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JeffreyKlamore
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WWJD
10/29/2019 at 10:20 AM

Spaghetti Monster said "The true nature of Christianity is shown in all its glory. "
I suggest you read Matthew 5. It will give you a good grasp of what Christianity should look like.

https://biblehub.com/niv/matthew/5.htm
MEPETAMINALS
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 22

MEPETAMINALS
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 22

.
10/29/2019 at 10:24 AM

Traluks said "In this country Christians are silently or not so silently persecuted.

As for the taxes being paid by churches, Satan worshippers and pagans are being treated the same as the Christian churches.

I will give you but one example of Christian persecution in our country. Not long ago (less than a year) the highest court in Canada agreed that law students who studied at Trinity West University in Vancouver (a Christian University) will not be allowed to practise law in all of Canada.

The reason for this is the fear that lawyers who studied at a Christian university might be biased towards abortions, same sex marriages etc.

I would like to dare our highest court to lay down the same ruling regarding a Muslim university. The jihadis will be running wild in our country. "
Again, how on earth is giving equal rights to so called "Satan Worshipers" and pagans equated to persecuting christians?

You have the right to not be persecuted only so long as you don't try to claim the persecution of others as your right.

Regarding Trinity:

"The reason for this is the fear that lawyers who studied at a Christian university might be biased towards abortions, same sex marriages etc."

The fact that students were forced to sign a "Community Covenant" that essentially states exactly this might have something to do with that.

Edited by MEPETAMINALS, 2019-10-29 10:25:55
Spaghetti Monster
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Posts: 1909

Spaghetti Monster
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1909

WWFSMD
10/29/2019 at 10:31 AM

No thanks! I prefer my fiction to be science fiction and not nearly as ludicrous.

Edited by Spaghetti Monster, 2019-10-29 10:36:34
JeffreyKlamore
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JeffreyKlamore
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Posts: 16

why not?
10/29/2019 at 11:40 AM

Spaghetti Monster said "No thanks! I prefer my fiction to be science fiction and not nearly as ludicrous.

Edited by Spaghetti Monster, 2019-10-29 10:36:34"
I just wanted to kindly help out. You never know, maybe a time will come in your life when you will need/want guidance from God, and Matthew 5 would be a good place to start. I can guarantee, if you will read it (along with Jesus other teachings) with a humble and open mind, it will lead you to a peace of mind and soul that you have never felt before.
Spaghetti Monster
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1909

Spaghetti Monster
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1909

well the thing is.....
10/29/2019 at 11:55 AM

..... I find it impossible to set aside my intellect sufficiently to achieve a suspension of disbelief when it comes to the bible.
Adam

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 15663

Adam
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 15663

Divisiveness
10/29/2019 at 12:17 PM

Where my concern lies is in a mindset that if widely adopted risks plunging Canada into the grips of the same forces of tribalism-induced fear, anger and hate that are increasingly dividing the country to the South of us.
Debates like this are about humanity and I get concerned when I see someone from a specific belief system thats a subset of humanity claiming ownership of the debate to the point of claiming persecution when a decision by the state doesn't go the way they'd envisoned. I'm sure a lot of folks that share many of those same general beliefs dont see things that way and I hope they realize that there are many that understand that the opinion of some doesn't represent the opinion of all.
This community, country and world are made up of folks of all different stripes, many with their own path to happiness that have more in common than some realize. Much respect to anyone that commits to a belief system that works for them and has the potential to make their lives and those of people around them better. I start to get concerned for this country however at the thought of more aggressive, tension-triggering ways of trying to force one’s own viewpoint or path on another. At what point are matters pushed to the point where the harm in the form of tension and divisiveness exceeds what one sees as the benefit?
MEPETAMINALS
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 22

MEPETAMINALS
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 22

.
10/29/2019 at 12:26 PM

Well said.
RantsFromAfar
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 283

RantsFromAfar
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 283

********
10/29/2019 at 12:45 PM

1) The ruling would apply to any institution that does not want to teach (or follow) the law as it is practiced in Canada.

2) You didn't even seem to attempt to understand my post: so I'll do it for you below.

==========

327 8TH ST (Central United Church)
Gross Assessment Value
$3,309,400.00
Net Tax
$1,342.29

332 8th street (Funeral Home)
Gross Assessment Value
$1,007,900.00
Net Tax
$26,745.44

335 8th St (Private residence)
Gross Assessment Value
$236,300.00
Net Tax
$2,599.21

================
Also, I'm going to have a hard time believing that you are persecuted when for the month and a half following Remembrance Day there are going to be Christmas decorations and music everywhere. One can't go grocery shopping in December without hearing The Little Drummer Boy or about Mary's boy child Jesus Christ... but tell me about Christian persecution.
Spaghetti Monster
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1909

Spaghetti Monster
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1909

RE divisiness...
10/29/2019 at 12:59 PM

.... We are already there. It is evident in the cries of “separate” when an election doesn’t go as hoped.

It is evident when groups known for persecution on a global scale cry “ we are being persecuted “ when a society puts rules in place to protect its members from them.

It is evident when folks who seek legal medical procedures are vilified by those who would not choose the procedure for themselves.

Respect for beliefs is not mandatory thank god.

“Much respect “to any who manage to govern their lives with beliefs that are based in reality rather than fantasy.

When their belief system is inherently divisive I see no reason for respecting it. Rather there are many reasons to bring forth a discussion calling those beliefs into question.

Thankfully the trend towards religiosity is on the decline and governments are finally finding the gumption to challenge the “sacred cows” and dogmas. There are fewer and fewer who will set aside their intellect in favour of fantasy.

Only when religion,in all its forms, is relegated to the private lives of those who continue to profess belief and is no longer a barrier to our culture will we have finally grown up as a society.