Discussions

so New York reduced their idling law to about less than a minute. Toronto is following suit.  
 
A professor came on and said you only have to warm up your car for a couple of minutes.  
 
Car manufacturers have been asked by regulators to look into automatic stops. So if your car is idling it would stop. then you would have to restart your car.  
 
ok imagine the following:  
 
at a red light: takes awhile to change your car shuts off you have to restart. and having every other car doing the same.  
 
in a traffic jam same thing car shuts off and you have to restart every few feet.  
 
then look at:  
 
- 40 C with wind chill: takes a bit longer to get the engine warm enough to drive without blowing your engine.  
 
picture being caught in a blizzard: car shuts off: and the dance of restart and shutting off starts while you are freezing to death  
 
picture being caught in a traffic jam or whatever temperature is 40 C plus. no AC as the dance of starting and stopping your car begins.  
 
picture leaving another adult in the car while you run in. Coming out as the car shut off and they couldn't get it started again. frozen to death or heat stroke happening.  
 
this really is the most stupid idea I have ever heard of.  
 
yes there are times that idling is unnecessary but automatic engine stops dangers waiting to happen  
 
This was in a newspaper report and on I think CTV news.

You must not be familiar with these systems, there is usually a button to disable it. There isn’t much danger from them.

Also in the winter, right before a long road trip with little children in car seats. You need to take their jackets off as soon as they are in the vehicle so they don’t get too hot during the long drive (also better seat belt protection with them off) but you can’t do that if you are shoving them into a cold vehicle.

Its because some people idle far more than they need to. I have a guy on my block with a welding truck that idles EVERY morning for a minimum of 30-45 minutes, even when its -5. Its rediculous.

Buick has had this in some of their vehicles for awhile now. There're safe guards in place, like it wont shut off if the vehicle isn't warmed up enough, and it can be disabled if needed.

I've been in a vehicle like this. A tap on the brake pedal and it restarts immediately.

This system is already on a lot of vehicles. There is a button to disable it. The auto stop does not turn the vehicle off when it is very cold and or the vehicle is not warmed up. No risk at all. On the vehicle I drove it was barely noticeable at a light. The fan and everything else stays on.

GOING TO BE TROUBLE DOWN THE ROAD WEAR ON STARTER AND RING GEAR PROBABLY STOP WORKING WHEN WARRENTY UP KINDA LIKE A CASH GRAB FOR DEALERS DOWN THE ROAD. GM BUILT A HIGH BREAD TRUCK RAN ON BATTERYS AND GAS WHEN THE STATLER I THINK THATS WHAT ITS CALLED IT WAS LIKE A STARTER BUT THAT DROVE THE TRUCK WHEN IN ELECTRIC MODE THIS ALSO STARTED GAS ENGINE WHEN THAT BROKE ON TRUCK TOLD PART NO LONGER AVAILABLE NOW HAD A PARTS TRUCK. I DONT KNOW WHY THEY CANT KEEP IT SIMPLE LIKE THE OLD DAYS

People in my town leave their cars idling ALL THE TIME. Drives me bonkers. Nice days, cold days, rainy days, dry days. Weather doesn't matter: they just want to take advantage of being able to perfectly climate-control their vehicle no matter the consequence. So, I am all for automatic stop.

Talked to a mechanic about this. He does not like the system. He feels the frequent shutoffs (city traffic, lots of stops and starts) is going to be hard on the vehicle. I do not want a vehicle like that-yes, you can disable it but you have to disable it every trip, there is not a permanent disable switch.

Lots of the newer vehicles have this. The technology has been around in "hybrid" vehicles for well over a decade. The vehicle restarts as soon as your foot moves off the brake pedal and is pretty well seamless as your drive away.  
The vehicle warms up as usual, command start works as usual. The vehicle does not shut off when it has not reached operating temperature.

I wouldn't live in either of those cities. Too much of a total "Nanny State" mentality.  
 
I also wouldn't choose to buy a vehicle that has that "feature" in it either. I don't want a vehicle that fights me. The mechanic has a good point. A whole lot of unnecessary wear on the starter motor, starter drive and ring gear. You have to drop the transmission to change the ring gear so, expensive to fix.  
 
I do, and will continue to, warm up my engine before I drive my vehicle, but I do not leave my vehicle running while I go in stores, restaurants, etc. It's my gas, I don't get it for free, I have to pay for it and I want to save it for driving.  
 
Edited by Triplethreat, 2020-02-12 00:53:15

About 75% of your engine wear and tear is when you start it up so having a engine that turn off and on every single time your stop won’t last to long compared to a engine that stays on when your stopped

Plus we pay the liberal idiots more tax dollars overall now to combat the effects of CO2 in the environment.  
 
Tax dollars fix the environment.  
 
I agree, wont buy a vehicle with this dumb feature. Should we do more to extend the human race's time on earth? Sure. Is green tech where it needs to be to make that possible? Not even close.

where did you get that stat?

Sometimes it takes a long time to defrost the windows, it’s not always about warming the engine or the temperature for the people riding inside. I am short, truck is high so cleaning windows can be a challenge.  
 
We would never buy a vehicle that did this

I bought a new truck with this feature in the fall, as mentioned above, it wont stop if the heat/ac is going full blast nor will it stop if the engine is not at operating temperature. It's taken a bit of getting used to but if it helps reduce emissions even a little bit I am all for it. I don't need to idle the truck even on days like this for more than a minute or two before leaving. It heats up fast enough via driving.

A mechanic and an auto electrician. Everyone that says keep vehicles simple is right. There are too many systems on modern vehicles and equipment which have potential to create multiple issues. It is all great until you get an unusual issue at which point dealerships and manufacturers often struggle to properly repair the problem. Also manufacturers in many cases are making important electrical components obsolete after a short period of time making repair difficult and shortening vehicle life. This creates increased demand for new manufacturing and contributes greatly to emissions. If you have a good vehicle now look after it and run it as many years as you can, the new stuff is shoddy build quality. However we will quickly move past the need for stop start systems. Great Britain has recently amended the law to ban the sale of all petrol and Diesel powered vehicles ( including hybrids )and heavy trucks in 2035. That is only 15 years and you can expect other countries to quickly follow suit. Manufacturers will now quickly have to develop alternative power systems, it’s just getting interesting!  
 
Edited by Farmergeorge, 2020-02-12 09:18:21

Everyone just relax. The is no conspiracy theory between the manufacturers and the repair shops. There is no money grab. I have driven in California many times and they have very high emission standards for many many years now. If you buy a new car in California it has to come with "California emission" which also includes the idle shut off. Its very simple. If you stop at a red traffic light with your foot on the brake for longer than a few seconds, the engine dies. A/C, heater, radio, everything still works. When you release the brake the engine starts automatically. If fact you would never even know what happened unless the radio is off and your windows open. Then you'd hear the engine start. Most of the times it just happens and it's so automatic that you never even know.  
No extra repair shops in California that says "starters repaired here".

There is currently laws that heavy vehicles must be shut off if idling for more than 10 minutes. There is currently no idling restrictions or regulations for passenger vehicles but there have been some motions put forward to change this. There are quite strict emissions testing on vehicles in order for them to be registered. California emissions standards do not, however, require stop start technology.  
 
I also wondered about the wear and tear on starters from constant use. I have read that between how the gearing is set in these new starters and the fact that the engine has to be at full operating temp for the stop start tech to engage, the wear and tear on the starter is negligible. Don't know if that is true or propaganda.

Get Electric... problem solved.  
 
No need to pass new laws. I think Britain already passed or proposed a law that would ban new sales of gas/diesel vehicles by 2035. I believe 75% plus of all new vehicles sold by 2030 will be electric.

see my previous post above

Because you mentioned something in a previous post, no one else is allowed to add to it? Please. You don’t own the forum “farmergeorge”. Carry on people

My limited understanding the best technology would be the use of a hydrogen fuel cell to generate electricity on board the vehicle giving 0 emissions, virtually unlimited range and very high efficiency. This would solve many problems associated with current electric vehicles and reduce the need for additional power generation and distribution.

Roll your windows down in the summer and listen closely at red lights...you'll hear a lot of vehicles starting up automatically when the light changes to green.

If anyone thinks this feature will stop cars being left to idle while they warm up, it isn't so. I am currently driving one of these vehicles. This morning I hit the remote start and the vehicle idled happily in my driveway for 10 minutes. It was warmed up nicely, but it did not shit off until I hit the button to shut it off.  
 
When I am actually driving the vehicle, I will be hitting the button to disable the shut off feature.

The problem with going to all electric cars is that 99% of residential electrical infastructure is not designed to carry the loads required for every home to have a charging station. Not even close. I'd be interested to know how the UK plans to deal with this issue.

The UK is going to face MAJOR infrastructure hurdles in order to get everyone on electric.  
 
As of right now, the UK is consistently utilizing 95% of their available power... before the big push for electric vehicles.  
 
They do not produce enough power to move away from petrol/diesel powered machines. I don't think that will be an issue in Canada but the distance between locations will be an issue with the garbage range electric vehicles currently have, especially considering what cold weather does to batteries and the range.

The problem with hydrogen fuel cells is that in practice they are not a source of energy. They are a means to store energy. So this is in many ways the least viable alternative to fossil fuels, because it usually takes more energy to store than you are actually storing, and storing energy in hydrogen is actually still not terribly safe (but it's getting better). It's expensive to store and to move. And if I understand it correctly, a lot of hydrogen is still produced by the consumption of fossil fuels anyway. Sure, it doesn't have to be, but alternatives are still considerably more expensive. Other alternative energy options are a lot more attractive, so far. There's a reason Tesla and others aren't making their cars with hydrogen fuel cells.

That in Britain they will be allowed to run a vehicle on hydrogen under the new laws. I seem to remember from way back in college that a modified internal combustion engine can run on hydrogen.  
 
Edited by Farmergeorge, 2020-02-26 20:15:11