Discussions

Use your head! "I see no requirement of an oncoming vehicle to have to slowdown and pullover to allow for vehicles to complete a pass in the opposite lane." Really??? I guess if it's not in the hand book, best not to use common sense? Come on! Ridiculous! Better off alive than dead, geez!

This is definitely one of those situations where yes, the OP might have been right and the semi driver misjudged, but you can't say you're right when you're dead.  
 
The semi driver screwed up/misjudged (whatever you want to call it), but the OP could have pulled over or slowed down instead of going head on with a semi, because he wasn't "winning" in this situation.

Trevor B said "    fargobob said "No matter what wrong the driver of the semi committed, the correct course of action for the other driver (OP in this case) would be to slow down and pull to the right. In this case there seemed to be plenty of opportunity to do so. " cite the legal text for the OP to do that course of action? I don't see in in either the Drivers Handbook or the Professional Drivers Handbook.     From the Manitoba Highway Traffic Act.   'Passing on very narrow roadways   s. 114(2)   114(2) Except when overtaking and passing on the right is permitted, a driver of a vehicle being overtaken,   s. 116(2)   116(2) Without restricting the generality of subsection (1), no driver shall drive a vehicle to, or upon the left side of, the directional dividing line of a roadway in overtaking and passing another vehicle unless the left side of the roadway is clearly visible and is free of oncoming and overtaking traffic for a sufficient distance ahead to permit the overtaking and passing to be completed without interfering with the safe operation of another vehicle.'     I see no requirement of an oncoming vehicle to have to slowdown and pullover to allow for vehicles to complete a pass in the opposite lane. "

Actions of the semi driver aside, here's the legal requirement for the OP to slow down in this scenario  
 
Reasonable and prudent speed  
95(3) No person shall drive a vehicle on a highway at a speed greater than is reasonable and prudent or in a manner that is not reasonable and prudent under the conditions and having regard to the actual and potential hazards then existing: and, without restricting the generality of the foregoing, no person shall drive a vehicle on a highway at a speed otherwise permitted under this Act where  
 
(a) the presence of a child on or near the highway, whether or not he is in close proximity to the grounds of a school building or a playground, dictates, in the interest of safety, a slower speed or the temporary stopping of a vehicle: or  
 
(b) [b]any factor exists in the face of which failure to reduce that speed, or to stop the vehicle temporarily, constitutes a danger to any person or property visible to the driver.[/b]  
 
Now I'm not entirely sure, but I think this falls under imprudent driving

Checked further, infractions of Section 95(3) of the provincial Highway Traffic Act fall under imprudent driving and carries a fine of $203.80 and 2 demerits.

Good post Enfyre, you beat me to it. Despite the law of passing when safe to do so, there is still the onus on the oncoming driver to use common sense and be prudent to allow the truck safe passage. The same would apply in a scenario where if for what ever reason a vehicle had been sitting in the lane the OP was driving in but unable to move (ie broke down) it is his responsability to stop. He can't just plow into the vehicle because it shouldn't have been there. No matter what the law says, dead is dead.

Here's my thoughts on this.  
 
Was the semi driver in the wrong? Technically yes.  
 
Did the pickup driver (the OP) do everything he could have to alleviate the situation? Nowhere near. It looked like they barely slowed down, and they barely moved to the right. Rather than saying "step on it" which by the way he very well could've been at the governor so he couldn't go any faster, I'd have slowed way down and started to move to the shoulder right as the video started.

sure he would of taken evasive action eventually. Both drivers made an error.

Does anyone else find it funny that the OP hasn't been back to defend his actions? I'm pretty sure if something bad had happened from this incident and this video was used in court, the OP would find himself on the losing end. And to think he was in the right by not trying to avoid the situation is nuts. I have a class 1A, not a full time driver but do a fair bit, I see idiots all too often like this moron on the roads, and when accidents happen they always blame someone else. It's becoming more common to blame the truck drivers, maybe it's time to hold ALL drivers to the same standards as large truck drivers.

Trevor B said "    fargobob said "No matter what wrong the driver of the semi committed, the correct course of action for the other driver (OP in this case) would be to slow down and pull to the right. In this case there seemed to be plenty of opportunity to do so. " cite the legal text for the OP to do that course of action? I don't see in in either the Drivers Handbook or the Professional Drivers Handbook.     From the Manitoba Highway Traffic Act.   'Passing on very narrow roadways   s. 114(2)   114(2) Except when overtaking and passing on the right is permitted, a driver of a vehicle being overtaken,   s. 116(2)   116(2) Without restricting the generality of subsection (1), no driver shall drive a vehicle to, or upon the left side of, the directional dividing line of a roadway in overtaking and passing another vehicle unless the left side of the roadway is clearly visible and is free of oncoming and overtaking traffic for a sufficient distance ahead to permit the overtaking and passing to be completed without interfering with the safe operation of another vehicle.'     I see no requirement of an oncoming vehicle to have to slowdown and pullover to allow for vehicles to complete a pass in the opposite lane. "

I was citing from the book of common sense. I'm surprised you would suggest there might be a more reasonable course of action than I stated above. ???  
 
The requirement to pull over is self imposed. Self preservation, for most of us, is instinctual.

I admit I misjudged the distance. The passing distance was not what I would have chosen but I did not expect it to have been as close as it was. I should have braked sooner and pulled over but was reluctant to pull over as the shoulder was not paved, was wet and looked soft. Should have got the cruise turned off too. Hindsight is always 20/20. Even given the soft shoulder, it would have been better than hitting the semi and I would have put my vehicle on the shoulder as I have done before when I had no choice.

Try pulling another 53 feet behind u with extra tires means extra drag does ur dump truck weigh 40000# empty NO! Maybe guy was governed. companies think it's safe but nothing sucks more when u catch up to a truck get side by side and it seams like he bumped his cruise up and now ur not blowing by him as fast as u were catching him. trust me it happens and even though you hit ur limit u wish u didn't for extra 5 km/h to get moving to get back in ur lane. there is dips in the hiway u don't see cars that happens. 84ft passing 84ft isn't fun following a guy at 90km/h isn't ither u wait tell it clear u try pass. some times it ends up like this situation that is where everybody should work together to make sure everyone gets home to family. so that means slowing down, taking wide shoulder to let guy get in. I been in this a few times not fun not where you wanna be but happens. maybe mister in vehicle never had his head lights on witch I have had ppl pass me in fog with out them on and met ppl with out them on that's scary too. Don't dis a truck driver till you have done it. It not 20ft long with over drive I think if more negative ppl tried it they would have more respect for them

Trevor B said "sure he would of taken evasive action eventually. Both drivers made an error. "

He had an extra 10 feet to work with, I sure he would of taken action eventually.  
 
Food for thought!  
If they had hit, would you have called it an accident?  
With the video as evidence, who would have been at fault?  
 
The good news is no one lost their life.

If they had hit, no I wouldn't have called it an accident. If there was no video it might have been considered Death By Truck. Witnesses would have seen a truck that never slowed down or swerved out of the way or tried anything to avoid a head on. I'm glad the OP came back to make his statement, and I respect him for it, but I can't help but think the shoulder is paved, I may be wrong but it really looks like it is to me.

kevlar said "If they had hit, no I wouldn't have called it an accident. If there was no video it might have been considered Death By Truck. Witnesses would have seen a truck that never slowed down or swerved out of the way or tried anything to avoid a head on. I'm glad the OP came back to make his statement, and I respect him for it, but I can't help but think the shoulder is paved, I may be wrong but it really looks like it is to me. "

Insurance companies don't deal with "accidents". That word implies that it was unavoidable. They're all called collisions. In this case it would have been classified as a 3 vehicle collision. And with it involving 2 semi trucks, that would have been pretty devastating.  
 
I ride motorcycle, with that awareness has to be increased and defensive driving is a must! As such, I employ the same type of driving in my truck. I don't make any assumptions that the other drivers are driving with the proper due care, you can never be too careful out there.

would it have been so hard for the OP to have eased up on the pedal as soon as he saw the passing semi? What's the harm in backing off 5 mph and giving the trucker a little extra time to make his pass? He was committed to passing and at that poi t ìt is not so easy for him to back off and get back in behind the other rig. If the oncoming vehicle backed off by 5 mph at the point where he was mumbling STEP ON IT the miss would have been much less near. The truckers appreciate it and there is no harm to the smaller vehicle. This reminds me if the time.a friend hit a guy in town. She pulled out from an intersection thinking she had time...and hit a car as she was turning. the guy driving the other car said he saw her turning but he had the right of way so he speeded up. (Had he drove at a steady speed my friend would have made it through her turn safely. Who was really to blame there? ?) I have frequently taken evasive action to avoid an accident-even though I've been in the right. Staying clear is easier than dealing with a collision even if it means I have to brake or move over or even stop in spite of having the right of way.

Trevor B said "    LarryRobins said "You are correct Trevor. But wouldn't it be better to take evasive action & be alive than be dead trying to prove a point ? " Maybe in this case the OP should of taken evasive action given the road conditions. But the semi driver still would be in the wrong since he caused another driver to take that action.     Edited by Trevor B, 2017-03-02 17:22:47"

Yes, there was an error in judgement on the semi driver's part. Yes, the semi he was passing could have slowed down and maybe sped up instead. We don't know. All we know is that the OP was, in the eyes of everyone with a hint of common sense, an idiot. From the HTA:  
 
[i]Reasonable and prudent speed  
 
95(3) No person shall drive a vehicle on a highway at a speed greater than is reasonable and prudent or in a manner that is not reasonable and prudent under the conditions and having regard to the actual and potential hazards then existing: and, without restricting the generality of the foregoing, no person shall drive a vehicle on a highway at a speed otherwise permitted under this Act where  
 
(b) any factor exists in the face of which failure to reduce that speed, or to stop the vehicle temporarily, constitutes a danger to any person or property visible to the driver.[/i]

my flight instructor, Len Fisher told me two things that have stuck with me to this day.  
 
A Superior pilot uses his Superior Judgment to keep himself out of situations that would require his Superior Ability.  
 
Make small corrections early to avoid having to make major adjustments later.  
 
Definitely applies to driving too.

bdngal said "Use your head! "I see no requirement of an oncoming vehicle to have to slowdown and pullover to allow for vehicles to complete a pass in the opposite lane." Really??? I guess if it's not in the hand book, best not to use common sense? Come on! Ridiculous! Better off alive than dead, geez! "

Well said bdngal

a) when this happens...with any vehicle...you slow down and move over to the shoulder...common sense.  
b) the semi driver should have not passed that vehicle. his common sense was clearly missing.  
c) glad your ok. thats scary shit.

B said "I admit I misjudged the distance. The passing distance was not what I would have chosen but I did not expect it to have been as close as it was. I should have braked sooner and pulled over but was reluctant to pull over as the shoulder was not paved, was wet and looked soft. Should have got the cruise turned off too. Hindsight is always 20/20. Even given the soft shoulder, it would have been better than hitting the semi and I would have put my vehicle on the shoulder as I have done before when I had no choice. "

hind sight is 20/20 and im glad you are ok, now you have a better idea what you should do in a similar situation but really you should have known to slow down when you started commenting on the semi driver, obviously you knew it was close then, also if you needed to take the unpaved shoulder you would have hit it at a slower and safer speed, but eh live and learn  
 
trevor B, there is a big difference between semis and dump trucks lmao,  
 
 
the other issue is that while sure the semi cut it close, in a collision the op defiantly would have been assigned some fault due to the fact that he did not take evasive action when he obviously seen the issue

Guess I have a different opinion of what members of the RCMP might think of a story such as this. They, as well as first responders are the people who have to live with the carnage of traffic accidents, and maybe it's just my opinion, but stories like this give us all a chance to learn, and think about our actions when we are driving. References to imprudent driving should give us all the chance to question whether there are things that we do while driving that endangers others while we are on the road. Many charges laid by police officers are laid at the officers discretion, and maybe discussions like this stand the possibility of making roads safer.  
Since I'm off topic, I will say that I watch the Canadian reality show Heavy Rescue 401, and can't believe how drivers, in that area, don't understand the danger they put people in by refusing to just slow down.

It also depends on the speed of the oncoming vehicle. Lots of ahats like to mess around and challenge other vehicles. It's just common sense and courtesy to chose not to allow a collision to happen regardless who may be at fault. You can't tell me that moving over towards the cleared side of your lane, or slowing back a couple of kms per hour would worsen your day somehow.

It's should be and hopefully was a learning experience for both the truck driver and the OP. And having said that we have all done dumb stuff behind the wheel at one point or another whether you want to admit it or not or you did it on purpose or not. No ones perfect. But It's too late now to change anything and you could sit here all day and say what the driver should or could of done, but that's not going to change anything. Hopefully both drivers learnt a few lesson from this. Defensive driving also helps.

B said "I admit I misjudged the distance. The passing distance was not what I would have chosen but I did not expect it to have been as close as it was. I should have braked sooner and pulled over but was reluctant to pull over as the shoulder was not paved, was wet and looked soft. Should have got the cruise turned off too. Hindsight is always 20/20. Even given the soft shoulder, it would have been better than hitting the semi and I would have put my vehicle on the shoulder as I have done before when I had no choice. "

I've been reading this post shaking my head.  
Why on Earth "B" ever thought it was a good idea to haul out a phone and hit the video button while you were driving first of all was just a major error in judgement. And I know your response will be it was a passenger....however you still had to see the situation in advance that was going to happen and say...hey this is gonna be a close one lets video it??!!  
And your excuse that it was a soft shoulder....well....obviously you had enough insight and time to haul out a phone to video what could have been....maybe you could have used your brain and some courtesy to slow down and pull over on that soft shoulder of the highway??!  
Me thinks that you were hoping for the worst!! You HOPED you could witness someone making an error in judgement and catch the tragedy on video for the world to see so you may be deemed as a hero for videoing such a sad mishap. This person driving was someone's child...father ...mother... brother....  
And unfortunately we ALL make mistakes...some do cost us our lives and leave others to deal with the aftermath. The idea that you wanted to catch such a tragedy is real life is......well....absolutely mind boggling.  
I guess you never make errors in judgement? But if and when you do....let's hope no one is there to catch your mistakes on video.

I think the video is from an installed always on dash camera.

First off assuming things can be a big mistake. I watched the video a couple of times and I "assume" that the video was from a dash cam. The OP posted this for their own reasons, and I highly doubt that it was recorded with the intention of showing and accident. Maybe my understanding of people is off, but the video shows how close calls can occur, and we can all learn from this story

The video is definitely from a dash cam.  
 
Edited by The_Young_Man, 2017-03-04 08:24:21