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Chuckles
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 132

Chuckles
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 132

eBrandon Jobs
8/24/2017 at 2:40 PM

Does anybody else think that Jobs and work related Ads on eBrandon should all specify hours, shift and salary?? That way only interested people will apply and would be more efficient for both employers that won't waste time on hiring process of candidates not interested and also job seekers that would go straight to what fits their abilities and capacities?

Edited by LeoHdz, 2017-08-24 14:46:12
Fishin Guy
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 6897

Fishin Guy
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 6897

Yes and No.
8/24/2017 at 3:24 PM

For someone looking for work I am sure they would love posted wages and such. The person seeking work should do homework about the business they are applying to.
-Retail/Food/Etc:Chances are you could be scheduled Sun-Sat during their business hours.
-Specialty businesses:Might only be open Mon-Fri. Closed weekends.
Wages-Stuff like servers expect min wage plus tips. Cooks probably 14-16/hr.
I am just pulling numbers to what I think they would be. If I am job searching I would look into average wages for that posting.

By posting wages and such you give your competition open ground to see what other companies are doing and try and get a leg up on them.

Edited by Fishin Guy, 2017-08-24 15:38:25
Brenda..
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 9544

Brenda..
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 9544

hours
8/24/2017 at 5:59 PM

I would like to see work hours. Salary is not a big concern, if it sounds like a job you would like to apply for and you need a job - then apply.

Work hours would be great if someone is looking for a second job, then they would know if it would interfere with their current job.
JoeSixpack
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 83

JoeSixpack
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 83

I agree.
8/25/2017 at 9:29 AM

The reason why people work is to get paid. It is the most fundamental aspect of why jobs exist.

I don't think employers quite understand how much time and effort goes into job searches, for people trying to find a career that will pay their bills. It should absolutely be a requirement that wages are posted in an advertisement. Employers expect that employees will put the time and energy into tailoring their resume, attending interviews, but if they go through that entire process and discover the wage is not where it should be, then it's a complete waste of time for employees and employers. Why not be straight up from the start so everybody knows what is being offered from the get-go?

With respect to the comment about everybody should know what the wages are, that's just not the case. It's a manipulation of the relationship between two parties when the fundamental aspects of that relationship are not being disclosed from the start.

The other part of this question is about employers who advertise the same position for months and often years at a time. I'm not talking about a generic position (like a server, etc) but about a specific job, and that advertisement never disappears. It's almost as though they don't want to actually fill the job, but that they run the advertisement to make sure that their filing cabinet is full of potential hires in case they happen to need someone some day. But again, those companies don't see the amount of time and effort and energy it takes for someone to actually sit down and tailor a resume, a cover letter, or an application, where no job really ever exists. And these companies should be called out, or prevented from having these jobs listed for such extended periods of time. It's a manipulation of the space where job seekers are trying to find real job matches.
plus zero
Joined: This month
Posts: 1236

plus zero
Joined: This month
Posts: 1236

JoeSixpack
8/25/2017 at 10:03 AM

I think you are wrong to say that employers don't understand the time and effort goes into job searches. I would say it goes both ways because it does take time and effort for employers to look the right employees. A bunch of applications are received and the employer has to read them and contact the ones for interview and I hear some employers going through interview and have no good one for what they want. No employers love to hire & train and rehire & retrain and rehire & retrain someone for the same position job because some people apply and accept the job then realize they do not like and quit.
Some applicants exaggerate (or lie) on their resume which waste the employer's time to read it and consider it and hire the person causes later a fire or quitting position which both involve a ROE to fill out again employer's time consuming.
About job positions being posted that are not available not sure how true I have heard about it by some which I do find it should not be allowed this is not fair for applicants to hope when there is not.
JoeSixpack
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 83

JoeSixpack
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 83

Plus Zero
8/25/2017 at 10:22 AM

When you suggest that "it goes both ways" ... suggesting that it takes the employer a lot of time to go through resumes and arrange for interviews, screen, etc. Yes that is absolutely true. But have you ever considered that the reason why they are wasting all this time is because the employee came in and found out that the wage was not sufficient to pay their bills so then denied accepting a job offer when it was made? Or how about someone who accepts a job with a low wage, goes through the training, but then finds out that the money's earned doesn't keep up with paying the bills and quits in order to move on to another job that does pay a higher wage? If the employer is going to suggest that they waste so much time and money and energy in the hiring process, then it seems that the solution would be to post all of the relevant information of what is being offered (wages, hours, etc) and that using this method is much easier to get the types of applicants that will stay on after the training, with them knowing fully what the terms and conditions of the fundamental (wages, hours, etc) aspects of the job were from the start. It seems counter productive to me to suggest that an employer wastes so much time screening new hires, but then doesn't see that the reason why you have such poor matches/retention is because there is a fundamental difference in perspective on the aspects of that job, that are the REASON why employees do that work in the first place (to earn money to support their families, put food on the table, and pay the bills).

Edited by JoeSixpack, 2017-08-25 10:30:18
JoeSixpack
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 83

JoeSixpack
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 83

Wage Information
8/25/2017 at 10:41 AM

I actually just checked the "job" tab for eBrandon and am shocked to see that there are no wages listed in almost all of the listings. Most job postings show $0.

Adam, I really think this should be addressed. It is a disservice to all parties in this job search space, when this type of information is not being disclosed from the start. The original poster to this forum has a very good point, and really should be followed up with some better rules.
Adam

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 15663

Adam
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 15663

Job postings
8/25/2017 at 11:27 AM

The jobs section sure has grown to the point where it's almost a who's who of employers in Westman with 20+ postings on many days and tons of views on those ads! With so many postings and everyone having their own unique lifes and skillsets I know that it can be quite the task in seeing what all is available in town and finding just the right match for an employee.... something I remember all too well from my job searching days before I was fortunate enough to get into the situation I'm in now.

Because every job, every business and every hiring process is different the job description field is wide open as far as what information is advertised to allow for maximum flexibility. It's pretty typical for there to be variance in what information an employer chooses to disclose on postings. When it comes to salary it's often the case that the pay will be different depending on the quality and experience of the candidate, and it is also the case that they will not want (and can't be forced) to publicly share what they pay their employees for competitive reasons. My approach in running that part of the site is that it isn't my job to tell the employer to disclose something they don't feel is necessary on their advertisement. The more rigid the requirements, the less jobs and that's not good for anyone.

All that said, If I was applying for a job and it was important that the potential employer knew the minimum I'd work for I would consider putting that in my application. Of course if the wage is something I intended to negotiate if I got the job then disclosing my bottom dollar amount probably wouldn't be my ideal way to start.
As an aside, there was a mention of seeing "zeros" on each job. There's nowhere on the job display page that shows a dollar amount, but there was the same default "price" category showing in jobs that all other classified categories show. I just made a tweak so that there is no "price" showing on the main job listing page since it isnt applicable to the jobs field and there's no need for the zeros to cause any confusion. Thanks for pointing that out.
Best of luck in your search!
Edited by Adam, 2017-08-25 12:09:23

Brenda..
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 9544

Brenda..

Joined: Jul 2005

Posts: 9544

I agree

8/25/2017 at 12:18 PM

plus zero said "I think you are wrong to say that employers don't understand the time and effort goes into job searches. I would say it goes both ways because it does take time and effort for employers to look the right employees. A bunch of applications are received and the employer has to read them and contact the ones for interview and I hear some employers going through interview and have no good one for what they want. No employers love to hire & train and rehire & retrain and rehire & retrain someone for the same position job because some people apply and accept the job then realize they do not like and quit.
Some applicants exaggerate (or lie) on their resume which waste the employer's time to read it and consider it and hire the person causes later a fire or quitting position which both involve a ROE to fill out again employer's time consuming.
About job positions being posted that are not available not sure how true I have heard about it by some which I do find it should not be allowed this is not fair for applicants to hope when there is not. "

it works both ways.

If you need a job to survive - you need to take the time and effort to find one, whether the wage is posted or not.

A lot of time, some employers may have a wage in mind, but wait until the hire the right employee to decide, due to experience, skills, etc.

If I needed a job bad enough, I would take the effort to apply.....after all, looking for a job is work. It is not easy. Put some effort into it, whether you know the wage or not, if it is something that interests you.

Employers gets hundreds of resume's these days for jobs they post. They do not care if you don't apply, because they did not state the wage.

Fishin Guy
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 6897

Fishin Guy

Joined: Dec 2005

Posts: 6897

Dammit Brenda....

8/25/2017 at 3:18 PM

Brenda said "

plus zero said "I think you are wrong to say that employers don't understand the time and effort goes into job searches. I would say it goes both ways because it does take time and effort for employers to look the right employees. A bunch of applications are received and the employer has to read them and contact the ones for interview and I hear some employers going through interview and have no good one for what they want. No employers love to hire & train and rehire & retrain and rehire & retrain someone for the same position job because some people apply and accept the job then realize they do not like and quit.
Some applicants exaggerate (or lie) on their resume which waste the employer's time to read it and consider it and hire the person causes later a fire or quitting position which both involve a ROE to fill out again employer's time consuming.
About job positions being posted that are not available not sure how true I have heard about it by some which I do find it should not be allowed this is not fair for applicants to hope when there is not. "

it works both ways.

If you need a job to survive - you need to take the time and effort to find one, whether the wage is posted or not.

A lot of time, some employers may have a wage in mind, but wait until the hire the right employee to decide, due to experience, skills, etc.

If I needed a job bad enough, I would take the effort to apply.....after all, looking for a job is work. It is not easy. Put some effort into it, whether you know the wage or not, if it is something that interests you.

Employers gets hundreds of resume's these days for jobs they post. They do not care if you don't apply, because they did not state the wage. "

Sigh.....I actually agree for once what you are saying. Lol.

As an employer I don't need every company in my industry knowing what my wages are. If a company lists wages as say 14-18 depending on experience what are you thinking you would be wanting...18 or 14. In my experience companies that post wages are usually desperate for workers. This does not i:nclude union positions as they post wages based on their collective agreement.

If you need a certain wage to live you better be expected to have a certain degree of knowledge to back it up. I have had kids right out of high school, first job interview, wanting 25 an hour to start.....cause that is what the rigs make, plus they need to pay the bills. Told them were the bus station was to apply for the rig jobs instead. If I need 25/hr to live I would not be applying as a restaurant dish washer or a cashier at the local grocery store. You start getting into the skilled workforce. Entry level construction jobs demanding long hours and all sorts of crazy hours for starting around the 16/hr mark I have seen.

When I hire my industry can only sustain a certain wage low and high. I have a certain wage level based on experience, training, etc. I couldn't even put a wage on an ad as it would mean nothing. I am straight up when someone asks what I start at, at least they can decide from there. As for the effort into finding a job. It shouldn't matter what the wage is you should act as if any job paid over 6 figures a year. Every ad I post, apply in person. Never guess how many emails and faxes I get. Right away fail for not following directions.

Abbysmum
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 5039

Abbysmum

Joined: Mar 2009

Posts: 5039

I agree

8/25/2017 at 4:16 PM

I agree with you too Brenda that it goes both ways and that seeking work is a job in itself.

I'm surprised that people that people are complaining that no wages, etc are posted. The way people come on ebrandon and complain that they *can't* find a job, I would expect any job that's advertised by would snapped up by pent-up demand.

It's similar to the complaints that landlords don't put photos of rental properties up. When they get dozens of applications without the photo, why would they waste their time?

Doug
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 6888

Doug
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 6888

Wages
8/29/2017 at 10:37 PM

Yep for some it is important. Both sides. I find ebrandons search feature weird. I use indeed a lot.

I do know the factors that eliminate me from applying are usually included in the job description. Which is okay as it not a waste of anyone's time. Although one of those factors is so basic I ask myself Why? Squat to do with that job!.

Cover letters (tough to write) is where the wage discussion comes in think. Just before one writes that cover letter he or she should have a clue about what the starting wage is. The job interview is probably a better place to try to nail down a hard figure. It is at this time both sides can say no.
Winter123
Joined: This month
Posts: 848

Winter123
Joined: This month
Posts: 848

wages
8/30/2017 at 8:46 AM

This is something that does annoy me as well. I am very skilled in my trade and when looking for work it is frustrating to spend the time and effort plus taking time off to attend interviews only to be told the position is only paying entry level wages. We are talking anywhere from $10-$15 an hour wage difference! I have had people stare at me in disbelief when I say what my current wage was. It is actually quite ridiculous the difference in wage in this city for the same trade. Maybe if more places posted their wage the other places would realize they need to step up theirs game if they don't want such a high turnover. If you want quality EXPERIENCED workers you need to step up your game because there are some businesses paying good money.

Another example was my sister-in-law spent 2 months having multiple interviews in Winnipeg with a big company. She told them her current salary at her current position and they told her the wage was negotiable if and when she was hired. She was offered the position and then they low balled the wage. She countered back with something slightly lower than her current job and was told they would not go higher than their offer. She declined and stayed where she was in the end and didn't move to Winnipeg. Absolute waste of time and effort for both sides.
MrDobalina
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 259

MrDobalina
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 259

I agree but here is the other side
8/30/2017 at 9:05 AM

I'd love to see a section with people seeking work. With sections related to fields of work. If I could snag a good experienced person I'd create a position just to have them. They could post their "expected wage" and all this drama is fixed.

Except they wouldn't want to post the expected wage...for the same reason a lot of employers don't.
Whoknows123
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 311

Whoknows123
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 311

No Problem
8/30/2017 at 9:48 AM

I would have absolutely no issue posting what I expect to get paid in my line of work.
Tater
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 372

Tater
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 372

Why waste each other's time?
8/30/2017 at 10:53 AM

Employers who don't post at least a range are really asking a lot from potential employees. They are basically showing their true colours in that they don't respect employees' need to support themselves, and that they will MAKE YOU ask instead of giving important information up front. Even asking potential employees what wage they would expect is disrespectful, as the employer is asking information that they themselves are not offering.

Why a business would waste their time and potential employees by being coy about wages is beyond me. It also keeps job seeker from being able to do good research on fields they may be interested in for the future. It is plain rude in my opinion.

When I've looked for jobs, I have been offered all kinds of wages at the time of offer or second interview, and sometimes the employer might have been surprised that the wage they offer is NOT going to get the employee they WANT. They would've learned that faster if they simply posted the range in the ad.
Brenda..
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 9544

Brenda..
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 9544

looking for a job
8/30/2017 at 12:18 PM

If you are looking for a job, or looking for another job in the same field, what does it matter to you how much time the potential employer spends on the amount of time it takes, if he/she does not post the wage. That is not your problem. That his how the employer wants to advertise his/her job and use the extra time, it is up to them.

If you are serious about looking for a job or looking for a change, then it is never a waste of time to go through the process, even if you don't know the wage. If you consider it a waste of time, then you are not serious about job hunting and if you did not apply because there was no wage advertised, well that could be your loss. You have to work for what you want and if you can't be bothered, well so be it. If you actually applied and it was a great wage and you got the job, would it be a waste of time then?

Fishin Guy
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 6897

Fishin Guy

Joined: Dec 2005

Posts: 6897

....

8/30/2017 at 12:33 PM

Tater said "Employers who don't post at least a range are really asking a lot from potential employees. They are basically showing their true colours in that they don't respect employees' need to support themselves, and that they will MAKE YOU ask instead of giving important information up front. Even asking potential employees what wage they would expect is disrespectful, as the employer is asking information that they themselves are not offering.

Why a business would waste their time and potential employees by being coy about wages is beyond me. It also keeps job seeker from being able to do good research on fields they may be interested in for the future. It is plain rude in my opinion.

When I've looked for jobs, I have been offered all kinds of wages at the time of offer or second interview, and sometimes the employer might have been surprised that the wage they offer is NOT going to get the employee they WANT. They would've learned that faster if they simply posted the range in the ad. "

Why not make it very simple for the employer and just post expected wage right on your resume. A simple "Won't work for less than $X.XX but expect to be paid $X.XX. If you were serious about an industry you would already know the wage scale paid. I have no problems if an applicant asks what the starting wage is. It goes both ways. I am not going to spend my time on my ad writing about what I can do for you. I am not going to have wage ranges stated, pensions, profit sharing, production bonuses, health benefits, boot allowances, etc. Now the focus is on what can I get out of this company.....yet what was the job again? Maybe I am just old school and let employers know what I can bring to their organization and work out wages from there. Seems that has gotten me pretty good in life so far. I do see newer employees expecting the world from employers now.

Chuckles
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 132

Chuckles
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 132

...
8/30/2017 at 3:16 PM

It's not about specifying all the details like someone said pension plan, deductions, bonuses or every single detail but at least employers should be recommended to give some basic information like if the position would be for part time or full time job, rotating shifts or just evenings etc. Even if the employer still not sure what they need make it clear, like this position is not yet clear on the shift. Wage apparently its too much to ask but at least don't be that vague and let the applicants know in advance if that would work or not for them.