Discussions

of vote. 2011 Election in brackets  
 
Liberal 39.5% (18.91%)  
Conservatives 32.1% (39.62%)  
NDP 19.4% (30.63%)  
B.Q 4.9% (6.04%)  
Other 4.1% (4.8%)

Jimbob said "    Trevor said "Just want to correct a post above where someone said no government has got 50% of the vote, I believe in 1984 the PC government got about 50.03% of the vote. " It was in 1958 with Diefenbaker's Progressive Conservatives. In other words, it's rare. "

Actually, it was in the Mulroney sweep from 1984. Dief's victory was a bit over 53%. There were several more before that and pre-1930 saw most elections won by over 50% of the popular vote because there were only 2 real parties.  
 
http://www.parl.gc.ca/parlinfo/compilations/electionsandridings/ResultsParty.aspx  
 
Edited by JR, 2015-10-20 00:19:39

cmp said "Novocane:   You appear to be too young in your profile to remember the previous Liberal governments. In about 1 year you are going to dream of a government that was run like Harper's. But that cannot be a reality for at least 4 years if the Liberals actually have a majority. We are locked in to this "alternative" for that long. My prediction is we will not see a second term, but it will take 10 years to undo the mess he is about to create. "

A year, I will still be eternally grateful that Harper's conservatives are not running the country. As for cleaning up a mess left behind by a previous government, the Liberals have years of cleanup after 10 years of Harper

The quiet one said "Harper resigns and let the Duffy trial restart     "

I thought you were joking when you said Harper resigned!  
 
Yep, he resigned as leader of the Conservative Party of Canada and will still sit in the House of Commons.

Sorbet said "    novacane said "Goodbye Harper! finally a new Prime Minister. I wonder how things will turn out? As long as Harper is out, I'm sure it can't be worse. " PM has ever been perfect, but how has PM made your life miserable over the past 10 years?     "

They can't explain it. They just know that he did because they've been told that he did.

Triplethreat said "    Sorbet said "    novacane said "Goodbye Harper! finally a new Prime Minister. I wonder how things will turn out? As long as Harper is out, I'm sure it can't be worse. " PM has ever been perfect, but how has PM made your life miserable over the past 10 years?     " They can't explain it. They just know that he did because they've been told that he did. "

Harper closed 9 Veteran's Affairs offices across the country.  
 
That affects many people in this area.  

At least it's not an NDP majority!  
 
The Conservatives did still manage to get 32 percent of the Popular Vote, meaning that there still is a lot of support for them from Canadians. They are not wiped out by any means. No, the Liberals won't change a system that enabled them to get a majority government.

JR said "    Trevor B said "    JR said "    Trevor B said "loved to brag that the majority of Canadians did not vote Conservatives .     " ...and I'm hoping that the promise to study and implement electoral change by the Liberals will come to pass. What I did notice is that the majority of liberals were elected with well more than 50% of the vote in each individual riding. " won't change since they won with this format. All of those who want to be in charge will complain about the format, but once they come to power, the existing format is fine. " I'm hoping that Trudeau is smart enough to realize that at some point, the FPTP system will be the downfall of his government. If I was in his place, I would get serious about electoral reform. At the very least it could allow him to retain power in some form if there is a surge from the right. "

So what you're saying is now that trudeau is in power he should adjust the election system so that he can't be ousted in the future ?  
 
"At the very least it could allow him to retain power in some form if there is a surge from the right"  
 
That surge you speak of is called an election and if a different party happens to be selected by the people then why shouldn't that settle it, I don't support the liberals but they won and that's that.  
 
I truly wonder how you would have responded if the conservatives had came up with that "idea" while they had their majority ?  
 
Would you have supported them changing the electoral system to their favor ?

hutchster said "    JR said "    Trevor B said "    JR said "    Trevor B said "loved to brag that the majority of Canadians did not vote Conservatives .     " ...and I'm hoping that the promise to study and implement electoral change by the Liberals will come to pass. What I did notice is that the majority of liberals were elected with well more than 50% of the vote in each individual riding. " won't change since they won with this format. All of those who want to be in charge will complain about the format, but once they come to power, the existing format is fine. " I'm hoping that Trudeau is smart enough to realize that at some point, the FPTP system will be the downfall of his government. If I was in his place, I would get serious about electoral reform. At the very least it could allow him to retain power in some form if there is a surge from the right. " So what you're saying is now that trudeau is in power he should adjust the election system so that he can't be ousted in the future ?     "At the very least it could allow him to retain power in some form if there is a surge from the right"     That surge you speak of is called an election and if a different party happens to be selected by the people then why shouldn't that settle it, I don't support the liberals but they won and that's that.     I truly wonder how you would have responded if the conservatives had came up with that "idea" while they had their majority ?     Would you have supported them changing the electoral system to their favor ? "

The ones who are hoping that he changes it just want it changed in the hope that the Conservatives will never be able to get back in, once it's changed. That's the real reason, IMO, not so much about democracy.  
 
Edited by Triplethreat, 2015-10-20 02:23:21

Triplethreat said "    hutchster said "    JR said "    Trevor B said "    JR said "    Trevor B said "loved to brag that the majority of Canadians did not vote Conservatives .     " ...and I'm hoping that the promise to study and implement electoral change by the Liberals will come to pass. What I did notice is that the majority of liberals were elected with well more than 50% of the vote in each individual riding. " won't change since they won with this format. All of those who want to be in charge will complain about the format, but once they come to power, the existing format is fine. " I'm hoping that Trudeau is smart enough to realize that at some point, the FPTP system will be the downfall of his government. If I was in his place, I would get serious about electoral reform. At the very least it could allow him to retain power in some form if there is a surge from the right. " So what you're saying is now that trudeau is in power he should adjust the election system so that he can't be ousted in the future ?     "At the very least it could allow him to retain power in some form if there is a surge from the right"     That surge you speak of is called an election and if a different party happens to be selected by the people then why shouldn't that settle it, I don't support the liberals but they won and that's that.     I truly wonder how you would have responded if the conservatives had came up with that "idea" while they had their majority ?     Would you have supported them changing the electoral system to their favor ? " The ones who are hoping that he changes it just want it changed in the hope that the Conservatives will never be able to get back in, once it's changed. That's the real reason, IMO, not so much about democracy.     Edited by Triplethreat, 2015-10-20 02:23:21"

If proportional representation isn't democratic, what is?  
 
If the election rules are changed and we do get proportional representation, it will be more democratic than the first past the post method that currently elects our representatives.  
 
If the conservatives (or liberals) cannot hold on to their ridings due to proportional representation then it truly is because of their behavior in Parliament, not due to political interference.

2011 the CPC won 166 seats with 39.62% of the vote  
2015 the LPC won 184 seats with 39.5% of the vote.  
 
 
 

CheapTrickz said "    Triplethreat said "    Sorbet said "    novacane said "Goodbye Harper! finally a new Prime Minister. I wonder how things will turn out? As long as Harper is out, I'm sure it can't be worse. " PM has ever been perfect, but how has PM made your life miserable over the past 10 years?     " They can't explain it. They just know that he did because they've been told that he did. " Harper closed 9 Veteran's Affairs offices across the country.     That affects many people in this area.   "

this the issue that bothered you the most about the CPC 10 year reign?

can we expect with a Liberal majority?  
 
1. Deficits: 2. Higher CPP premiums: 3. Higher EI premiums: 4. Legalized marijuana: 5.CO2 levy/tax: 6. No more military presence in Syria. 7. OAS returning to 65.

Trevor B said "of vote. 2011 Election in brackets     Liberal 39.5% (18.91%)   Conservatives 32.1% (39.62%)   NDP 19.4% (30.63%)   B.Q 4.9% (6.04%)   Other 4.1% (4.8%) "

The real Prime Minister will be a guy called Gerald Butts, a hardline radical environmentalist who won't rest until the whole country is totally running on renewables. As main adviser to Dalton McGuinty (former Ontario Liberal premier) he had a good start at that, their 'green' policies led to the closing/moving of thousands of manufacturing plants and 300,000 lost jobs. Closed plants don't emit carbon.

There is always much made about debt and deficits and yet is it not a part of nearly everyone's own life, in most peoples lives we borrow for all sorts of things and people do have personal lines of credit for shortfalls or the unexpected.  
I know that in business most have accepted the idea that to move forward debt is needed, and if we looked at business we would likely find that there are shortfalls in revenue that could be looked at as deficit positions and usually aren't considered a problem as long as only short term  
 
Although I do prefer a centrist type government I will not gloat about this election and judgement with not be made until we start to see who this government is going to cater to.

Sorbet said "    CheapTrickz said "    Triplethreat said "    Sorbet said "    novacane said "Goodbye Harper! finally a new Prime Minister. I wonder how things will turn out? As long as Harper is out, I'm sure it can't be worse. " PM has ever been perfect, but how has PM made your life miserable over the past 10 years?     " They can't explain it. They just know that he did because they've been told that he did. " Harper closed 9 Veteran's Affairs offices across the country.     That affects many people in this area.   " this the issue that bothered you the most about the CPC 10 year reign? "

His muzzling of scientist and interference in the public service research was my main issue with Harper. Stopping research and development also stops the economy.

JR said "    Trevor B said "    JR said "    Trevor B said "loved to brag that the majority of Canadians did not vote Conservatives .     " ...and I'm hoping that the promise to study and implement electoral change by the Liberals will come to pass. What I did notice is that the majority of liberals were elected with well more than 50% of the vote in each individual riding. " won't change since they won with this format. All of those who want to be in charge will complain about the format, but once they come to power, the existing format is fine. " I'm hoping that Trudeau is smart enough to realize that at some point, the FPTP system will be the downfall of his government. If I was in his place, I would get serious about electoral reform. At the very least it could allow him to retain power in some form if there is a surge from the right. "

so I hope you hold him accountable on this issue JR!  

Sorbet said "can we expect with a Liberal majority?     1. Deficits: 2. Higher CPP premiums: 3. Higher EI premiums: 4. Legalized marijuana: 5.CO2 levy/tax: 6. No more military presence in Syria. 7. OAS returning to 65. "

Would like to clarify what you said:  
 
Calling CPP Contributions a "premium" is misleading when it's actually a contribution. You and your employer pay equal amounts (4.95% currently) which is deposited into YOUR CPP fund. At any time you can request a statement from the government showing your deposits, and the amount sits there until you reach the age where you can begin to draw on it. Your payments are based on your contributions, so be grateful that you will have some income later in life when you can no longer work full time.  
 
As for EI, the Conservative Government actually announced that EI is running a surplus and will reduce the EI rate beginning in January 2017. Except everyone will think it was the Liberals doing since it will come into effect while Justin is PM. Or maybe he will scrap that, too?

Why do I feel like we jumped from the frying pan into the fire, it's a change but the results won't be pretty. I hope the Liberals do make a good govt but previous liberal govt were not kind to the prairies, cross our fingers and hope for the best. Congrats to all the candidates that ran.

Liberal - I hope Prime Minister Trudeau is ready. May he be treated fairly and given a chance.  
Conservative - Classy move for Mr. Harper to step down.  
NDP - Mr. Mulcair, please look to Mr. Harper for guidance and step away.  
Bloc. - still unsure how a party represented in only one province can run on the national stage.  
Green - Not to dis May but the Greens are still merely a footnote.  
 
Edited by CommonTater, 2015-10-20 09:10:58

It's a new day, so let's move on.  
After all, in a few short months we'll be talking about the provincial election where there may very well be another huge upset.  

No matter who comes to power, I will still enjoy our great country. I am no where near middle class. My car is not fancy, but gets me from A to B. My job pays enough, though not great. My account is not full of money, though I have no debt. (which is large percentage of stress and strife). I have affordable housing, great health care and food always gracing my table. If I lack any of the above, I have the knowledge, venues, and resources to change my current state of affairs.  
So I will not b*tch about the goverment but continue to pray for them based on this:  
 
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Timothy+2:1-2  
 
I am thankful to say, I lack nothing.  
GOD BLESS CANADA  

For those who are happy with a liberal majority think Harper embodies evil do any of you remember when pet defeated the kind gentle progressive Joe Clark because he was going to raise gas tax 10cents a gallon only to have pet bring in the metric system and double the price of gasoline. With Justin replacing Harper and promising carbon tax are you ready to pay 2.50$ a litre to satisfy the climate changers. Who is going to pay for another Trudeau everyone  
 
For those who think kinder and gentler conservatism wins I remind you of how long conservative were left out after embracing progressive policies.  
It is not conservative principals that have been the downfall of this government it is arrogance. The same arrogance that was the downfall of Alberta's conservatives, the same arrogance that saw Mulroney thrown out, the same arrogance that saw Paul martin thrown out grant define Gary filmon etc etc etc

Sorbet said "2011 the CPC won 166 seats with 39.62% of the vote   2015 the LPC won 184 seats with 39.5% of the vote.         "

Exactly. Just another false majority. How can anyone call that democracy? The major difference here is that Trudeau has promised electoral reform. Harper refused. In a true PR system, cooperation is the key word. As there are 3 left-leaning parties, it would behove Trudeau to implement reform. Let's face it, the majority of Canadians are on the left (ie. lib, NDP, Green).

Sorbet said "can we expect with a Liberal majority?     1. Deficits: 2. Higher CPP premiums: 3. Higher EI premiums: 4. Legalized marijuana: 5.CO2 levy/tax: 6. No more military presence in Syria. 7. OAS returning to 65. "

1. Deficits or debt is necessary to move forward and create employment. Do you really think companies will be willing to take on infrastructure work and hire employees for free out of the goodness of their hearts? No... they need a contract and payment, but since we are currently in a technical recession and deficit situation already, money has to be borrowed by the Feds to do this. This results in more employment, more security, a larger tax base, more consumer spending, growth for other industries because of the increase in spending, and it snowballs from there.  
 
2. The higher CPP premiums will come with an expansion to the CPP program. This is basically a retirement savings plan. The government can't use any of that money - it's all earmarked for the individual Canadians who contributed so that they have a guaranteed income in retirement. It's not a tax. It's not a fee. Expanded CPP will ensure higher payouts for low income earners and more stability to the fund, even though it is fully sustainable currently.  
 
3. Higher EI premiums probably won't occur, but again, this is not supposed to be a tax. It is insurance against job loss. If you pay homeowner insurance premiums all your life and never have a claim, do you consider that a tax? Of course not - you consider it sound fiscal practice. Same with EI (unless the government raids the fund to "balance" the budget).  
 
4. Legalized marijuana is a bad thing how? Does legalized alcohol lead to increased teen alcohol abuse? Does legalized tobacco lead to more teens smoking? Do either of these things lead to more organized crime? No to all three. What legalized vices do lead to is more regulated use of the substance in question and increased tax revenues for the government from its sale. Cannabis is not a gateway drug any more than tobacco or alcohol. And, unless you smoke 20 joints a day, it's no worse for you than tobacco which is full of carcinogenic chemicals while pot is not.  
 
5. CO2 levy - what would be a good way to encourage business to develop sustainable energy alternatives? How about making it more expensive to pollute? Sure, it might cause prices of goods to increase a bit in the short term, but if we don't do something to get a handle on CO2 emissions, at some point in the not-too-distant future, none of that will matter anyway. If you have a better idea of how to give polluting industries an incentive to reduce carbon emissions, let's hear it. In the meantime, a shot to the wallet always works.  
 
6. No more military in Syria. Why are we there in a combat role in the first place? Would anyone notice if we weren't (other than the families of the soldiers who won't be killed)? What ever happened to our support and peace keeper role on the world stage?  
 
7. OAS returning to 65 is a bad thing how? Maybe with that expanded CPP, this will allow our seniors to be able to retire at 65 and open up more employment opportunities for our youth.  
 
 
Edited by JR, 2015-10-20 13:44:56

JR said "    Sorbet said "can we expect with a Liberal majority?     1. Deficits: 2. Higher CPP premiums: 3. Higher EI premiums: 4. Legalized marijuana: 5.CO2 levy/tax: 6. No more military presence in Syria. 7. OAS returning to 65. " 1. Deficits or debt is necessary to move forward and create employment. Do you really think companies will be willing to take on infrastructure work and hire employees for free out of the goodness of their hearts? No... they need a contract and payment, but since we are currently in a technical recession and deficit situation already, money has to be borrowed by the Feds to do this. This results in more employment, more security, a larger tax base, more consumer spending, growth for other industries because of the increase in spending, and it snowballs from there.     2. The higher CPP premiums will come with an expansion to the CPP program. This is basically a retirement savings plan. The government can't use any of that money - it's all earmarked for the individual Canadians who contributed so that they have a guaranteed income in retirement. It's not a tax. It's not a fee. Expanded CPP will ensure higher payouts for low income earners and more stability to the fund, even though it is fully sustainable currently.     3. Higher EI premiums probably won't occur, but again, this is not supposed to be a tax. It is insurance against job loss. If you pay homeowner insurance premiums all your life and never have a claim, do you consider that a tax? Of course not - you consider it sound fiscal practice. Same with EI (unless the government raids the fund to "balance" the budget).     4. Legalized marijuana is a bad thing how? Does legalized alcohol lead to increased teen alcohol abuse? Does legalized tobacco lead to more teens smoking? Do either of these things lead to more organized crime? No to all three. What legalized vices do lead to is more regulated use of the substance in question and increased tax revenues for the government from its sale. Cannabis is not a gateway drug any more than tobacco or alcohol. And, unless you smoke 20 joints a day, it's no worse for you than tobacco which is full of carcinogenic chemicals while pot is not.     5. CO2 levy - what would be a good way to encourage business to develop sustainable energy alternatives? How about making it more expensive to pollute? Sure, it might cause prices of goods to increase a bit in the short term, but if we don't do something to get a handle on CO2 emissions, at some point in the not-too-distant future, none of that will matter anyway. If you have a better idea of how to give polluting industries an incentive to reduce carbon emissions, let's hear it. In the meantime, a shot to the wallet always works.     6. No more military in Syria. Why are we there in a combat role in the first place? Would anyone notice if we weren't (other than the families of the soldiers who won't be killed)? What ever happened to our support and peace keeper role on the world stage?     7. OAS returning to 65 is a bad thing how? Maybe with that expanded CPP, this will allow our seniors to be able to retire at 65 and open up more employment opportunities for our youth.       Edited by JR, 2015-10-20 13:44:56"

I like your answer, the short one would be  
 
8) No more Harper.  
 
 
BTW - Doug Ford is being considered as a replacement for Harper.... Yeah, I'll just let that sink in.......  
 
http://www.torontosun.com/2015/10/20/doug-ford-to-run-for-conservative-party-leadership  
 
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/toronto/globe-investigation-the-ford-familys-history-with-drug-dealing/article12153014/?page=all  
 
 
Edited by Cee Jay 55, 2015-10-20 21:29:18

While I agree with you that most people live with debt. It is not all of us and it is those of us that cringe when we hear about these huge deficits because at some point in the future we or the generations that come after us will have to pay the price for this overspending. And like I would never want to leave mountains of debts for my family to deal with (not to mention the staggering interest costs) I don't think its responsible to do that to our country. Now this is not to say that I am not giving this party a chance to prove that they can provide something good for our country. I'm just, so to speak, holding my breath.

CheapTrickz said "    Triplethreat said "    Sorbet said "    novacane said "Goodbye Harper! finally a new Prime Minister. I wonder how things will turn out? As long as Harper is out, I'm sure it can't be worse. " PM has ever been perfect, but how has PM made your life miserable over the past 10 years?     " They can't explain it. They just know that he did because they've been told that he did. " Harper closed 9 Veteran's Affairs offices across the country.     That affects many people in this area.   "

worker at the building at 11th and Princess and there is also an office still in Shilo!

SJK said "    CheapTrickz said "    Triplethreat said "    Sorbet said "    novacane said "Goodbye Harper! finally a new Prime Minister. I wonder how things will turn out? As long as Harper is out, I'm sure it can't be worse. " PM has ever been perfect, but how has PM made your life miserable over the past 10 years?     " They can't explain it. They just know that he did because they've been told that he did. " Harper closed 9 Veteran's Affairs offices across the country.     That affects many people in this area.   " worker at the building at 11th and Princess and there is also an office still in Shilo! "

is a veteran and I asked him if he had any problems accessing services and he said no. Media bs.

Jaxon said "While I agree with you that most people live with debt. It is not all of us and it is those of us that cringe when we hear about these huge deficits because at some point in the future we or the generations that come after us will have to pay the price for this overspending. And like I would never want to leave mountains of debts for my family to deal with (not to mention the staggering interest costs) I don't think its responsible to do that to our country. Now this is not to say that I am not giving this party a chance to prove that they can provide something good for our country. I'm just, so to speak, holding my breath. "

Not everyone lives outside our means and government shouldn't either.  
 
I do question however why you would want to leave the only guy to run a deficit (or 7 or 8) in over 20 years in charge of keeping the books balanced?