Discussions

By the equivalencies you're trying to draw I'll go with the assumption you fall into the category of the vaccine hesitant. The topic of the thread is the fact that 73% of Manitoba cases, 79% of hospitalizations and 100% of ICU cases are in those not fully vaccinated despite being a much smaller portion of the population. I hope you've taken the time to read through posts and linked resources to understand where concerns are rooted. Even though our fourth wave is starting weeks later than other Western provinces, the percentages above are similar to what has led Alberta’s health care system to buckle and Saskatchewan’s to be not far behind. It would be naive to think we aren’t similarly at risk.  
 
I do appreciate that you didn’t try to go into spreading the kind of stuff that's widely accepted as misinformation. I shouldn’t speak for others, but it’s my nature to hope the best for another human being in mind as well as body. At the same time unless your own stance is based on consultation with/assessment by your doctor based on circumstances that might make your health situation unique, “can’t we all just get along” doesn’t apply here and there’s no guarantee it ever will. Asking for respect for a stance that’s putting your community, our children and our medical system at risk in contradiction with public health guidance is a non-starter. Even if not everyone is going to go as far as suggesting denying care as a solution, you shouldnt be surprised by tension over that choice in other folks' words perhaps forever even if there’s hope you’ll one day realize how you’ve been taken advantage of by the disinfo campaigns that have been ongoing.  

The good thing is it still isn't too late to do as public health is asking and do ones own part in protecting the community and our health care system. If there's a concern relating to your own personal health, absolutely book in with a doc to discuss. If that avenue isn't easily available to you you might start your journey with a call into Health Links at 1 888 315 9257

Going back to the thread topic... what are your thoughts on the fact that the pandemic is all but over if the unvaccinated simply do as asked? In stead we have 73% of Manitoba cases, 79% of hospitalizations and 100% of ICU cases in those not fully vaccinated and if we follow Alberta’s lead are weeks away from lost lives directly from Covid and indirectly from unavailability of beds, surgeons and docs to care for those with other ailments?

Even though there are obviously shades of gray in there, this to me gets to the heart of the problem.  

Paralleling a public health crisis we seem to have ourselves a bit of an empathy crisis in < ~10-15% of the population (respectful of course of the small amount that have an official medical exemption). The lack of understanding and respect for the impact we have on others and for the role one plays in a wider community they live/shop/work/and-or-play in is a real problem when combined with lack of respect for the critical importance of medical expertise in public health.

Don't know all the intricacies of Gibraltar's response other than their Under 12s won't be vaccinated yet and that we need to tread carefully with conclusions on a small sample size, but in general I'd like to think we hold up a place with an extremely high vaccination rate, any still-necessary public health measures, a low caseload and a medical system that isn’t resultingly overwhelmed as an example of being closer to the new normal that vaccines afford. 
 
We understand that just as health professionals have repeated over and over and over across countless jurisdictions, the vaccines overwhelmingly reduce the severity and quantity of cases across a community and region as the size of vaccinated population grows. We understand that if a variant such as Delta has increased ability to spread, all it appears to take is ~10-15% of the eligible population essentially volunteering to be easy (unvaccinated) targets for it to result in a number of cases that puts us all at risk through the impact on medical system. See Alberta at https://www.alberta.ca/stats/covid-19-alberta-statistics.htm … but the ratios in Sask and Manitoba support the very same conclusions.  
 
One can find themselves falling into a sort of victim stance or one can try to reframe by cherry picking individual points and dancing around the core of the discussion. None of it changes that If one is going to disregard the clear data that shows that a wide unvaccinated population puts us all at risk, then members of that population that are susceptible to putting us at risk shouldn’t be surprised to continue to not be permitted in situations where spread can seriously ramp up. At the Friday media briefing it was said that we can expect these restrictions on the unvaccinated to be a long-haul kind of thing if there were some that were hoping to wait them out. Just aren't taking the risk of compounding the situation. It's at least a little comforting to hear that kind of resolve, seeing that our vax rate has been moving so slowly and that we unfortunately need to put these extra boundaries on unvaccinated folks for now in order to keep all of us more safe.

Wishing you the best in health, body and mind. We all arrive at our perspectives through such a variety of influences and through such a variety of urban and rural lenses, yet we all share this same province and medical system. At the end of the day for all of the ups and downs I feel we’re in good hands with gov using many different levers to steer the ship to where the collective “us” needs to be to get closer to the other side of this that we all want to get to.

I'm really sorry to read about your friend.  It's extremely difficult when we experience a personal tragedy. If you ever need someone to talk to about it, consider me always available.

As far as this thread goes, the topic is that 86% of hospitalizations, 92% of ICU covid patients and 70% of active cases overall in Manitoba have come in those who haven’t been fully vaccinated. With the vaccine proven to reduce cases significantly and massively reduce the kinds of severe cases that require hospitalization, the topic is that the segment of the population not getting vaccinated are responsible for the strain we’re seeing on medical systems. I haven’t seen anyone even try to debate this because the data really is that clear.  
 
This isn't about first concern being a vaccinated person being fearful that their vaccine isn’t working, not even sure where that assumption comes from but have seen it in the odd person here and there. This is about a vaccinated person being fearful that our hospitals follow Alberta's path and become chalk full of cases in people that didn't get vaccinated. Then our parents/grandparents/ourselves have a serious non-Covid medical emergency that requires non-Covid but just as professional medical care and hospital beds that aren't available. Isn't fantasy, this is what Alberta is living right now and what Saskatchewan is on a straight line to. The numbers that show how massively more likely a non-vaccinated person is to acquire a Covid case that requires hospitalization draw a clear line that shows that that care would be available if all of the unvaccinated cases that required hospital care were vaccinated, resulting in significantly less hospitalization.  
 
Not saying this necessarily directly applies to you, but sitting on the sidelines with “can't we all just get along" isn’t a substitute for looking at and living within the facts and reality of the crisis we’re in. We all unfortunately have a person or two in our circles that’s become detached from the facts of the situation to the point of being willing to sell our community and medical system upstream. I hate the thought of the division and being an optimist I hope that there’s a bridge over that gap on the other side of this, but that’s a hard thing for a lot of friendships/acquantainships/relationships to get past. 
 
At the end of the day the data shows that the health care crisis during the Delta wave is driven primarily by the unvaccinated and that’s on them whether they’ve adopted narratives that make it easier to not take responsibility. However that mindset seeded and dug in in that &lt: ~10-15% of the population, I’m thankful that the province has increased rules coming in place tomorrow to give the rest of us a chance to live a little bit closer to normal while their impact on the medical system is minimized as much as it can be.

BU with a clinic coming up this month (link below). Clinic last month saw 57 doses including 45 first doses... 
https://www.brandonu.ca/news/2021/10/04/vaccination-clinics-return-to-brandon-university/

Have appreciated the University's role as a leader on facts on the topic of vaccines in the community. 

Don't look now, but Alberta is on our heels in vaccine uptake with their increase and our slow crawl over the last few weeks... now up to 84.5% first shot in eligible 12 and overs vs our 85.2%. The were under 80% in the middle of last month. It shouldn't have to, but seems to sometimes take a scare I guess:  
https://www.alberta.ca/stats/covid-19-alberta-statistics.htm  
 
Can't over-state enough what a beneficial spot we're in in being able to see what the fourth wave is doing to the West of us and still having a chance to really get the jump on it digging in as much as it can.  CBC's Kives put it a little more into perspective today:  

The week-over-week growth is 35%.

The week prior, 30%.

If this continues, Manitoba will have 300 cases a day just after Halloween.

[It doesn't have to continue.]

— Bartley Kives (@bkives) October 5, 2021

Extensive CBC story on the track Manitoba’s currently on, the severe scenario based on projections of different directions the pandemic could go. Based on current case growth trends that would potentially have us at 500 cases a day by mid November and overburdened ICUs in December. About 164,000 Manitobans are still unvaccinated despite being eligible:  
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/manitoba-fourth-wave-1.6200993

For anyone that hadn’t caught, story at the link below on soon-to-be Federal vaccine policy changes. Federal public servants and RCMP have until the end of the month or will be placed on unpaid leave of absence unless valid exemption.  
 
Age 12+ Travelers by plane, Via train/mountaineer train and non-essential cruise ship will have to be fully vaccinated to board by the end of the month.  
 
These changes not only will have some direct impact on uptake, but will have the effect of the Federal gov leading by example on the topic on vaccine mandates. Feeling that the phrase “valid medical exemption” is going to become more and more common by the day.  
 
Please read the full link for all the facts as reported/announced:  
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/federal-vaccine-mandate-1.6201528

City has shared that all of Mayor and council are double-vaxxed.  

Quote from the Mayor...  
"It is important to stand with our community in this fight against this virus. We encourage those who are not yet vaccinated to seek professional medical advice, and if advisable, to initiate their vaccination process as soon as possible.”  
 
https://www.brandon.ca/public-notices-details?var=6206

Out of Ontario… best chart I’ve seen yet that makes it as clear as you possibly could the undeniable impact of vaccines in reducing hospitalization and ICU numbers and case numbers. Every time you see an anti vax say “you can still get Covid” so as to falsely imply vaccines dont have a huge impact, this is the chart to have on standby. Note the population numbers for each status, the hospitalization and case numbers  

Here's Ontario cases and hospitalization by vax status, w. pop. adjustment, the minimum needed to interpret this.

The vaccine is lowering the pop.-level risk of serious illness by ~93-97%; cases by ~84%.

The unvaccinated population is the No. 1 reason this isn't over. pic.twitter.com/T71IUGA9oZ

— Ed Tubb (@EdTubb) October 5, 2021