Discussions

Another burr in my butt. I have posted the story of my mother on another thread, so of course we have placed her on the list for the personal care home, where she would get more one on one care.  
 
Of course, there is a long waiting list, but since she has been "placed" she has to pay $1300 a month to be in the hospital. (or whatever they determine by your taxes)  
 
So, she could be a year waiting and paying. There is one gentlemen in the hospital who has been on the wait list for a year and a half.  
 
So, nurses are busy...I went there one day and had to clean her, feed her breakfast after ten, as no one had come to feed her or wash. Even though she is in the hospital, she is paying for personal care. She should be getting an aide to help her eat, taken for walks in her chair, taken to any kind of entertainment, even though she can't hear, they just have to put her in a lift chair.  
 
So, this was all new to me. We knew she would pay in personal care home, but no while in the hospital getting no extra care.  
 
Cash grab?

through the government for help to pay for the cost of staying at the hospital.  
In 1990, my Grandma had to stay in the Assiniboine Centre, awaiting placement for a PCH. My Grandpa had to pay for her to stay there. IT was more than my Grandma's OAS payment, so we applied to have that raised to pay for the hospital stay, per month.  
Sorry, I have no idea where we applied, as it is a long time ago, but if you ask the right questions, hopefully they can help.  
Good luck.  

i disagree its a cash grab, your mom is in the hospital because she can not handle her daily activities which isnt a covered expense so you have to pay, just like if she were placed in a PCH she would be paying a rate biased on her ability. $1300 doesnt cover a lot of care so she is being subsidized already.  
 
depending on what happened that day i can understand that sometimes her bath gets missed ect but if she is missing care on a daily occurrence then i would be talking the the charge nurse and then the manager if need be  
 
for activities it really depends on where she is located and what they have available, if activities are available she should be able to go to them, depending on her condition at least being able to sit in her chair or go for a walk for a bit in the day would be nice too, HCA are busy too but these are things that they should be helping her do

traveller said "i disagree its a cash grab, your mom is in the hospital because she can not handle her daily activities which isnt a covered expense so you have to pay, just like if she were placed in a PCH she would be paying a rate biased on her ability. $1300 doesnt cover a lot of care so she is being subsidized already.     depending on what happened that day i can understand that sometimes her bath gets missed ect but if she is missing care on a daily occurrence then i would be talking the the charge nurse and then the manager if need be     for activities it really depends on where she is located and what they have available, if activities are available she should be able to go to them, depending on her condition at least being able to sit in her chair or go for a walk for a bit in the day would be nice too, HCA are busy too but these are things that they should be helping her do "

if we hadn't put her on the list for PCH, she would be in the hospital for free. I know $1300 does not cover her care, but for anyone that is in the hospital, care is provided and free.  
 
Yes, the PCH is attached to the hospital...just down at the end of the hallway. They do have daily activities.  
 
Believe me, I have talked to the charge nurse, who agreed she will get better care in PCH, as she will have more one on one attention.  
 
I know people that are in the hospital for a lengthy period. Because they are not ready for PCH, they are getting free health care (yeah Canada), but do not pay and will be there a lengthy time, until they can go home.  
 
This is Canada, with free health care, all I ask is why is she paying when she is in the hospital?  
 
Believe me, if she makes it to PCH, I certainly have no problem paying for more one and one care.

Have you looked into hiring home care ? As long as there isn't a safety concern this might be an option. Unless she needs very hands on intensive care it may save you a little in the long run.

what i dont understand is why are you ok paying for mom if she is in a PCH but not because she is in hospital waiting placement?  
 
if its because of the care she isn't receiving then that has nothing to do with what she pays (yeah Canada)  
 
As far as I see it as long as everyone is the same then its fair, meaning if everyone waiting placement has to pay for their care then its fair mom does too, Some may get around this for a while by not going on the list but that is system abuse and unfair but nothing to do with moms care or fee  
 
not sure how busy the hospital is but if its one attached to the PCH she should be brought down to participate in activities, maybe one of the PCH HCAs can go get her? ask and see what can be done, hopefully something or you have every right to complain about that  
 
I do find the PCH system a bit unfair because some pay very little for their care while if you saved your whole life you pay quite a lot to live in one, they do cost lots to run so in some ways im glad the tax payers arent paying for everyone but it seems to punish the elderly that saved hard for retirement (yeah Canadad LOL)

I feel that you have been misinformed about paying for hospital stay waiting for a PCH bed. Once a patient is panelled for PCH there is a charge. And not every old person in hospital for lenghy periods meet the criteria for PCH placement. Once the patient is not receiving "acute" medical care and has been panelled is when the charges begin. If your loved one is on A3 waiting placement the floor is staffed as a PCH. I also believe it is up the the activity staff to gather patients as the HCA's are usually busy.  
As RainaRo suggested if you are not happy with the care I'm sure you or other family members can take your loved one home and provide the 24 hour care they require, keeping in mind Home Care does not provide 24 hour care.  
I agree it's a long wait but you do realize you are waiting for people to die in order for a bed to open up. Imagine how you will feel once your mom gets into a PCH and you read someone complaining about the wait time...........  
 
Edited by my dad says, 2016-04-03 11:05:57

There is not enough aides to give specail care to each person in there  
That is why lots of family's go in and help out with feeding bathing etc....nurses  
do not have that much time to take with one person when they have others that need  
there help as well....but i do feel for you though ....the costs are unreal...for the normal  
family to pay each month. ...but if it is too much...you could always take them  
home and look after them your self....that would solve your problem. ....just my thought...

traveller - we have asked for her to be taken down for meals and activities, no such luck. You pay for PCH, that is fine. better one on one care, own room, and it is just a fact that we knew.  
 
my dad says - she is in acute care, at one time in the palliative suite. There is no way she could be looked after at home. I have one other family member, we work in Brandon, she lives in Hmiota, and does not want to put her name in for a Brandon PCH. That is her only wish left, to be in Hamiota. As for my mom dying, I am ready for God to take her, then see her live like this.  
 
have a nice day - I don't expect her to get special care, but I know she will get better care. I again can't take her home. She needs the lifter to be lifted out of bed and bath, wheelchair to sit in, etc.  
 
I just thought my original post was something alot of people would not know, we certainly didn't.

I pm'ed you

I understand your frustration. I do agree with most posters. It really is no longer a hospital in our systems mind.  
 
I actually in most cases agree with that charge. Our hospital system is maxed out. It should try to recover costs from insurance companies or private coin when they can.Veterans affairs/benefits can kick in now.  
 
 
The sooner this person gets into a care home the better for both sides. In the meantime the space/staff that this person is using may not be available for someone in more need.  
 
The fact this person is one building owned and supported by taxpayers and not in another the same still means time to collect coin when it is not urgent care.Where it comes from is another matter. It sucks for your friend that they are in a temporary home. Not a home even but I agree it is time to pony up .  

If she isn't yet in the pch I can understand her not being able to go there for activities. You can't just bring more people in when they are already full.  
As for caring about paying because at the hospital she doesn't get one on one time and at the pch she would, sorry but I don't see this being the case. There is only so many staff members even at the pch, and a lot of time they are under staffed. The nurses and hca work their butts off to get everything done. Getting one on one care just won't happen very often. Yes she will get fed, bathed, ect. But they still may need to put her bath off a day or feed multiple people at one time.

As soon as they are panelled, they start paying. Then they wait placement for a nursing home. You might only get a day or so notice that there is a bed open in the nursing home. We have had to do this with all four of our parents. Talk to other people that have done this, and find out what to expect, so you will know. Unfortunately a bed only becomes open because of death or illness and need to return to the hospital.

Brenda said "    traveller said "i disagree its a cash grab, your mom is in the hospital because she can not handle her daily activities which isnt a covered expense so you have to pay, just like if she were placed in a PCH she would be paying a rate biased on her ability. $1300 doesnt cover a lot of care so she is being subsidized already.     depending on what happened that day i can understand that sometimes her bath gets missed ect but if she is missing care on a daily occurrence then i would be talking the the charge nurse and then the manager if need be     for activities it really depends on where she is located and what they have available, if activities are available she should be able to go to them, depending on her condition at least being able to sit in her chair or go for a walk for a bit in the day would be nice too, HCA are busy too but these are things that they should be helping her do " if we hadn't put her on the list for PCH, she would be in the hospital for free. I know $1300 does not cover her care, but for anyone that is in the hospital, care is provided and free.     Yes, the PCH is attached to the hospital...just down at the end of the hallway. They do have daily activities.     Believe me, I have talked to the charge nurse, who agreed she will get better care in PCH, as she will have more one on one attention.     I know people that are in the hospital for a lengthy period. Because they are not ready for PCH, they are getting free health care (yeah Canada), but do not pay and will be there a lengthy time, until they can go home.     This is Canada, with free health care, all I ask is why is she paying when she is in the hospital?     Believe me, if she makes it to PCH, I certainly have no problem paying for more one and one care. "

Well I know people that work on this floor and because she is waiting for personal care ...that's is why she is paying....she is using a bed that could be used for someone else in worse shape that will not be going to personal care home.....there is a fine line on needs and wants for people....But trust me these girls bust there buts up there and do a very good job....But yes there are some people that do not care as much as other....

hospital awaiting a room in PCH is if they are receiving medical treatment. We found that out this yr. You pay based on your annual income, the lowest being something like $1000 a mth and the highest you pay about double. That is all subsidized based on your annual income and the only way they stay in hospital for FREE is if they are getting medical treatments. There are alot of people in hospital beds at this time waiting for a bed to open up in PCH due to our high elderly population. And sadly this is hard fact we all come to learn. Before this I thought it would be covered as well....but it is not.

Same thing happened with my mother. She was in hospital, once she was panelled for PCH she started to pay. She was there for several weeks, then moved with only 1 day's notice to the PCH which was not the one she would have preferred.  
I'm familiar with the Hamiota hospital and take comfort that they get pretty good care compared to some places.  
Sorry for you going through this, it is not an easy time for anyone. Stay strong.

Our family members awaiting placement have 1st 2nd 3rd choices for carehomes. If you are so choked about paying for sub par hospital services (believe me it doesnt get better in care homes).. Your family member can await his or her FIRST choice in their 2nd or 3rd choice (awaiting placement). The reason many family members have to wait placement for long periods of time (and arent being activally medically treated)is because the family member is wanting their first choice and refuses to go to their 2nd or 3rd choice to wait. Therefore hospitals must begin charging as there is a bed being used up even though a carehome is willing to take the patient. Best of luck to you.

Doug - I can tell you that there is no one in more need than my mother. There may be others with the same needs.  
 
I certainly am not bashing Hamiota Hospital, I think it is a great facility to have in a small town and in asking mom if she wanted to come to Brandon were my brother and I are, she shook her head no right away. I once even signed myself out of emerg. in Brandon for a suspected concussion after a 6 hour wait and got a friend to drive me to Hamiota where I was seen right away.  
 
But we have got off track - I didn't know people would have to pay to be in the hospital living in Canada with free health care and wondered about other knowing. She has no insurance, not a veteran, so aren't I lucky dad just passed away and they sold their house a year ago, so she has the money?  
 
Kind of hoping next time I drive to Hamiota I don't come up with any more "wonder why" questions?  
 
Been a very bad day - as you might tell!

I am so sorry, Brenda.  
 
This is very much an eye opener for many. Thanks for sharing and best wishes to your dear Mom.  
 

michelle said "I am so sorry, Brenda.     This is very much an eye opener for many. Thanks for sharing and best wishes to your dear Mom.     "

Thank you Michelle.

Brenda said "    michelle said "I am so sorry, Brenda.     This is very much an eye opener for many. Thanks for sharing and best wishes to your dear Mom.     " Thank you Michelle. "

Was there never a family conference to explain about waiting placement and the facts about having to start paying?  
 
Your Mom sounds like a very sick lady and I think it would make total sense to keep her on a medical ward.

Johnbisonbear said "    Brenda said "    michelle said "I am so sorry, Brenda.     This is very much an eye opener for many. Thanks for sharing and best wishes to your dear Mom.     " Thank you Michelle. " Was there never a family conference to explain about waiting placement and the facts about having to start paying?     Your Mom sounds like a very sick lady and I think it would make total sense to keep her on a medical ward. "

no, they talked to mom when neither my brother or I were there. She agreed. At that time she may have been a little more coherent, but that should never have happened, my brother was there everyday, they could have waited till her came along to talk to her.

This thread started as something I did not know and I am sure a lot of other people did not know either. I just elaborated as the issue involved my mother.  
 
I know there are people from Hamiota on here and I am in no way bashing nurses, doctors, for we are so lucky to have that facility. Sure there were things I was not happy about and talked to the nurses and the next time I went to visit things were different. Nurses, doctors have more patience than me for the work they do and I know they have more patients than my mom. So, Kudo's to Hamiota Hospital!  
 
 
I just hope now that more people are aware of what could arise for anyone that is in the hospital and panaled PCH.  
 
Edited by Brenda, 2016-04-03 20:55:42

I have a problem with the system too. I make less than 6 figures but will be forced to legally separate from my wife if she requires a care home because my income means I would have to pay $2183 a month care home rate. We can't afford it. If we are separated or divorced, her rate is half. Apparently this is legal so why is the province forcing couples to separate or divorce to avoid paying DOUBLE!! I know couples who have made this decision to pay half. The province is not gaining anything because people are able to legally cut their rate to just over a $1000.

What "My Dad Says" is totally correct.  
 
On another note...  
You can take your family member home and care for at home.  
The cost is free (your time and money). You can still be on the PCH wait list.  
 
These are tough decisions and every situation is different but the rules are always the same.  
 
Good luck in the process.  
 

that what happens is that your "income" is separated You are not forced to divorce or get a legal separation if one party has to move to a PVH facility.  
Check out Mb personal care home costs for 2016 on the MB government website and it explains what happens when one party lives in PCH and the other lives in the community  
 
http://www.gov.mb.ca/health/pcs/qanda.html

The amount you pay for a nursing home is only calculated on what your pensions are - company pension (if you have one), old age, and CPP. It does not take into account how much money you have in the bank. My father only pays $31.00 a day. This covers room and board, all his pills (which can add up), great staff to help him 24 hours a day. He sold his house when he moved into a care home and this is his money in his bank account.

i have just gone through this with my dad. They requested my dad's notice of assessment for the latest income tax year. So his rent was based on his OAS, CPP, interest on any investments he had. The amount one pays is adjusted yearly based on current notice of assessments. So the principal of money he had invested had no impact on what he paid, but the interest he acquired did.

DontworryBHappy said "Our family members awaiting placement have 1st 2nd 3rd choices for carehomes. If you are so choked about paying for sub par hospital services (believe me it doesnt get better in care homes).. Your family member can await his or her FIRST choice in their 2nd or 3rd choice (awaiting placement). The reason many family members have to wait placement for long periods of time (and arent being activally medically treated)is because the family member is wanting their first choice and refuses to go to their 2nd or 3rd choice to wait. Therefore hospitals must begin charging as there is a bed being used up even though a carehome is willing to take the patient. Best of luck to you. "

Once paneled all patients start paying while waiting in hospital. No matter what choices they have for PCH. If you are offered your 3rd choice or your first choice you are still paying until you go to one. Most often bed utilization at the hospital will not allow you to refuse an offer from a 2nd or 3rd choice home especially if they are full. If you are waiting placement at home then you can wait for your 1st choice because you are not taking up at bed in the hospital.

B said "I have a problem with the system too. I make less than 6 figures but will be forced to legally separate from my wife if she requires a care home because my income means I would have to pay $2183 a month care home rate. We can't afford it. If we are separated or divorced, her rate is half. Apparently this is legal so why is the province forcing couples to separate or divorce to avoid paying DOUBLE!! I know couples who have made this decision to pay half. The province is not gaining anything because people are able to legally cut their rate to just over a $1000. "

Just a financial separation. There is a big difference.