Discussions

There is a reason why the school system doesn't talk about managing personal finances, and it's about time they started to teach the truth about this fraud. Ever wonder where money comes from? Ever wonder why governments are always struggling to find money to pay for social services? The banking industry is the largest fraud ever perpetrated, and it's about time the people learned the truth.  
 
Give this video a watch, then start asking the questions about why the world is so messed up:  
 
 
 
It's about time our schools started teaching finance at an early age so our children don't live the same scam we did.

After 2008 I became interested in modern finance and I too was disturbed to learn how the system really worked. Hidden taxes like inflation and just the simple idea that countries control their money supply. No more for me. I've held my savings in Bitcoin and other crypto-currencies since 2011.  
 
I chose to exit the current monetary system and use currencies beyond government control because of ultra low interest rates that punish savers. Governments around the world are pigeon-holed into this low interest rate corner and our money will be debased further by the time things get any better. Exiting the system is the best thing I've ever done for myself. The government can't confiscate, control, sensor or debase my Bitcoin.  
 

I've watched bits and pieces of the two videos posted. Most of it is info I already know from other sources. It's been a topic I've been interested in for about a year now.  
 
A couple of questions:  
 
1. Money is basically imaginary. It only has value because we agree, collectively, that it has value, whether it be a paper currency, gold or silver, seashells, or pebbles. Those items in themselves have no intrinsic value, but can be traded for other things of value, like food, shelter, tools, clothing, etc. This is valuable for a society and for trade because then you are not required to produce everything you need for yourself to meet your material needs, but you can convert what you have excess of into this intermediate medium to convert later on to something you have a shortage of.  
 
So, knowing that currency, in any form, is imaginary anyway, why is it bad that we have the ability to literally produce it out of thin air? If we form a closed, static system were no new money can be created without inputs, and yet we limit ourselves to creating no new inputs (no trees harvested, no new mining, etc), how do we manage increasing need anyway due to population growth? This is a reality for the foreseeable future.  
 
Also, why is Bitcoin superior to other forms of currency if, again, it's imaginary (like other forms of currency)? I'm understanding the argument that it's a "platform", but you can make that argument with paper currency as well in an analog sense. It doesn't overcome the innate valuelessness that other forms of currency possess, and therefore would be subject to the same sort of manipulation as currency if we choose to. Can you borrow in cryptocurrency? Will there be that capability someday?  
 
2. Are there concerns about the technological capacity for Bitcoins? By this I mean if the entire blockchain remains essentially intact and publicaly owned, at what point does that data become so unwieldy it's unusable? I admit I'm still struggling to understand the tech behind Bitcoin and other crytocurrencies, so is this maybe what they're referring to when they talk about it splitting (breaking it into smaller block chains)? But if that's the case, and it breaks into smaller segements, does the entire system still have access to the whole, or would you only have that little block chain now? If that's the case, it sort of defeats the purpose of the whole thing, no?  
 
Also, what prevents a large entity (such as a company, a person or a government) from overwhelming the system by possessing such a large portion of the chain that it would find a way to essentially control it? It has been a concern that prompted discussion around this Bitcoin Gold business.  
 
And do people honestly believe it can't be hacked? That somebody won't find a flaw (as software always has flaws) and will eventually break into it? What then? If there's no backing by government or otherwise, what protections do investors have? It could potentially set up a situation like 1929 when there was a failure in the financial system but without the protections in place that exist today (many of which arose out of the crash of 1929 when banks failed).

This comment is related to the first video as it relates to the scam that the banks have built, in which they lend money at interest that they do not own, including governments that pay the interest and give them the authority to collect interest from public debt.  
 
I understand that you have watched only a few bits and pieces of both videos. But if you watch at least the first video, I think the answer to your questions can be found.  
 
Yes, money is an intermediary, but as the video goes on to suggest, there are potential other monetary systems in which governments could create money themselves through non interest bearing infrastructure projects that are "value based" and not "debt based". This system would basically not allow private banks to collect interest on government debt.  
 
In fact, CANADA used to be until the early 1970s, when it joint the Bank of International Settlements and gave away our governments sovereign rights to private banks. Through Canada's former system (prior to the 1970's) it created an INFRASTRUCTURE Bank that built all of Canada's early infrastructure interest free, including the St Lawrence Seaway, the Trans Canada Highway and the national railroads. Now we get scammed on all these projects with forced private interest on government loans paid to private banks.  
 
This situation is currently trying to be brought before Canada's Supreme Court by a lawyer named Rocco Golati, who is a very smart lawyer that takes on cases of public interest pro bono.  
 
It's too bad more lawyers wouldn't see their job as that of serving the public. Most lawyers these days are all about themselves and don't take on cases that the law society should.  
 
Here is an amazing interview that should answer many of your questions between Rocco Galati and CBC's Amanda Lang, from a few years back. You wouldn't believe the history of this, it's so interesting. Give the interview a listen, and maybe go back to the first video:  
 
http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/rocco-galati-challenges-bank-of-canada-to-offer-interest-free-loans-1.3065650  
 
Bitcoin is another interesting monster that challenges the status quo in a different way, but the poster can speak to that.

The other really interesting thing is the idea of the Federal Reserve (Central Bank in USA), or the Bank of England. Most people don't realise this, but they would be shocked to learn that these are PRIVATE BANKS. Yes, the Federal Reserve is a private company that dictates monetary policy in the USA, and it's extension is even global.  
 
Don't believe me? Look it up, or watch the CBC interview with lawyer Rocco Galati who is petitioning the Supreme Court as it relates to the Bank of Canada''s role, and it's refusal (since 1974) to provide government interest free loans. Instead, government for the last 40+ years has been paying an enormous amount of interest to private banks, on money they could create interest free.  
 
Want to know why our taxes are so high? Well a good portion of your taxes go to pay the interest to private banks for public (government) loans. How messed up is that???  
 
Look at how Canada's federal debt was small and completely flat until this policy change in 1974 when they agreed to join the Bank of International Settlements, then the national debt skyrocketed!!!  
 
http://qualicuminstitute.ca/federal-debt/  
 
This doesn't have to happen. Our government is just giving private banks this money for nothing, to the tune of nearly 1.5 TRILLION and climbing.  
 
Ever wonder why most people will pay between 30% and 50% in taxes to CRA, when a good portion of this will just be passed on to private banks? If we never had to pay interest on our accumulated debt since 1974, we would never be in this mess, and the problem will only get worse because the debt amount keeps rising with interest on old loans never paid, and new loans added.  
 
It's a complete scam, and is basically a way of tricking the public into becoming unsuspecting slaves to the private banks. Then, the bankers take their profits offshore and pay no tax, and the rest of society carries the burden of this completely unnecessary situation. It's unreal!!! This country would be debt free if this never happened, and yet the scam continues. People should be outraged, but they also need to understand what is happening.  
 
Edited by Kirmit, 2017-11-22 23:56:08

Put it this way:  
 
https://www.canadianmanufacturing.com/financing/interest-payments-on-debt-cost-canadian-governments-60b-last-year-159851/  
 
in 2014/15 Canadians collectively paid nearly $61 BILLION in annual interest on public loans to private banks for that SPECIFIC YEAR. Canadians have been paying interest to PRIVATE banks since the Bank of Canada joined the Bank of International Settlements in 1974, instead of creating this debt money for public projects (infrastructure, health care, etc.) interest free.  
 
If Canada's national debt now stands at somewhere near 1.4 TRILLION (federally and provincially) then we would never have this debt if this scam were never allowed. In fact, we would be in the plus with no federal/provincial debt and a public service that actually worked.  
 
Think of where all that money could go. At 61 BILLION in interest for a given year, and a population of about 35 MILLION, that amounts to about $1,750 in debt payments, per person, per year, and that number continues to grow. How could an extra $1,750 in unnecessary annual debt work to improve your life? Have a family of 5 works out to $8,700, as this number is PER PERSON. How crazy is that!!!

1% of the worlds population controls the money. Their news propoganda is just that, propoganda. So if you create a system that is built to serve the 1% and keep the 99% fighting and divide that society into groups; upper class, middle class, lower class. You'll quickly see that the 3 classes think they are the only ones who exist in society. The elites hide themselves away from everyone else. With fashion, food, drinking, travelling, paying taxes, education.  
 
Then I get looked as the crazy one when I over react to stupidity. Can't fix stupidity.

Still waiting to see Trump live up to his slogan, "make America great again." Slogans serve no real purpose and they're neither right or wrong. You see the slogans everywhere and when you watch television your brain goes into an alpha state, meaning you're not rationally capable of knowing what is right, all you know is your being fed information and that's being stored in your subconscious state of mind.

The difference between fiat currency and cryptocurrency I’d that fiat currency is DEBT currency, whereas Bitcoin is not. Bitcoin is VALUE currency that has been created and does not get extinguished/disappear. Bitcoin is always there and does not operate in the sense that it requires usury. Important distinction, because the currency is owned and traded and cannot be created from nothing by private banks and loaned at interest. The fiat currency system is a scam because lenders are able to create money from nothing and lend at interest, whereas the interest money has never even been created. This is why recessions predictably exist in the cycle. The weakest links during that period of recession lose their shirts while everybody tries to hold on as the unbalanced system tries to reestablish.  
 
The interesting thing about cryptocurrency is that it is in nobody’s interest to acquire too much currency. On some level, trust in being able to use the system requires a trading platform between many people. If somebody could own too much of it, then there are less people to trade it and the value would drop.

Wayne is right. The system has been built this way. These very wealthy individuals representing the top 1% hide themselves in foreign jurisdictions with numbered shell companies to avoid paying taxes, but use our country and it’s infrastructure and public resources to conduct their business and generate the wealth. You can almost think of their actions as that of parasites.  
 
One thing I learned a few years back when I visited the Canadian Parliament, was that democracy doesn’t really exist (not as I was ever taught to believe in grade school, anyways). The way our government was originally set up was to make the people think they had a say through an elected MP, but the way the system actually was designed to work was that MPs would create bills in the House Of Commons, but those bills would need to pass through the Senate to become law. In the end, the Senate is actually there to represent the interests of the very rich and powerful. Who is the head of the Senate? It’s the Queen (Head of the monarchy). Who are the Senators? They are non elected, and as we learned during th Mike Duffy trial, a Senator needed to be someone who was a significant land owner that owned a minimum $4,000 in property. That amount on the books might not sound like much now, but it was a fortune back in the day (in 1867):  
 
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/dennis-patterson-nunavut-senator-land-requirement-1.3492697  
 
The Senates real purpose was to ensure that the wealthy land owners got the final say about any bills passed by MPs elected by commoners. Senators, even today, are non elected with lifetime appointments, and have the power to strike down bills passed by an elected body, or to modify bills before they are passed.  
 
Edited by Kirmit, 2017-11-23 01:22:20

There was an interesting philosophical teaching in the Republic in Ancient Greece that went along the lines of, "the ship of state"  
 
After reading this "ship of state" which suggests that philosopher kings, are the benevolent men which have access to the form of good.  
 
If our society had the philosopher kings as rulers, who only know good, our society would be different than how it is now.

In the Roman Collegia, a well understood principle is, "imposing your will"on a group of people to get them to behave only in ways that you want them to behave.  
 
You do that by putting them in prisons. Example, schools, production lines.  
 
Having these 2 big main factors in our societies function, the owners have the control.  
 
They have made a system so that the parents of the children have to work and pay taxes, limited support from the government for parents of low social economic status to pay for better education for their children. Anyways, the children spend 12 years studying the same old stuff with no "real" benefit. These owners of society have created a reward system that entails other benefits for which they'll continue to be motivated, example; paper money, or numbers on a screen. Which get the famous new car thats 0% interest for 2 years then after those 2 years are over and you're only a % into making the full legislated agreement, you're a slave to the system, you'll continue to work, and you'll continue to send these children to school, which the school won't fail them now, but the school will implement the agenda of the administration, which is liberal/conservative only.  
 
Then the child grows up to get a piece of paper to then have the option of being a slave, or going into getting another piece of paper to be a slave. All at the same time being influenced by an owner who only gives limited option.  
 
You'd think the schools teach critical thinking eh? Well they don't. Its all regurgitation and repetition to keep the owners at top.  
 
Where is the uprising?  
 
Oh wait, we're too busy looking at our new iPhone X's.

You'll either have left or right, red or blue, Coke or Pepsi to choose from. And this goes on and on.  
 
For Canadians, they have 2 main options, Liberals or Conservatives.  
 
The owners don't want an uprising. You know what they fear? Opposition to their system.  
 
If someone decided to come up with a plan to make a better society, well that idea would get stolen by the owners and they'd work to create a system with that plus their own agenda.  
 
Specialists in many different fields are working around the clock to serve these owners.

And yet that same education system will teach our children that slavery has never existed in Canada, or that slavery was abolished in the United States in 1865. In a very inobvious way, we common people have become the new slaves ourthe owners, the 1%. No longer is it enough for one member of the family household to hold down a full time job, now multiple members hold down 1, 2 or sometimes even 3. And even when we work we see a significant portion of our efforts go towards government taxes, who turn it over by paying private banks interest. What we have left to keep goes towards our mortgage principle, food, and interest on our mortgage. And the Queen, as head of State, legally still has the right to rule over our private property even as we hold title. It’s a crazy system we blindly allow to take place, thinking and believing we are free because we have been told we are.  
 
"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe.

This is all very interesting. Kermit, that is a good quote.  
 
I am taking cues from the mentioning of the school system in this thread and have some comments on that in particular. I recently said to someone that the school system was to make the poor poorer and the ultra wealthy more wealthy. The powers would never send their children to the public system (but instead give private schooling) as its purpose is to make the general public their willing, unquestioning, dependant slaves. The system is not about encouraging free thinking nor about questioning, it is about dumbing down, and I have often referred to public schools and hospitals (which are institutions) as prisons...they even [i]look[/i] and have a feel like them! The more this dumbing down is done, the more dependence on the power players, and the less questioning happens. The few who do question are discredited quickly or manipulated in some way in order to maintain control. It doesn't just start with public school (that is foolish to believe that). I am fully convinced that the manipulation & control begins even before birth through the medical system, then daycare, then public school, and then even exists in post-secondary as it follows the same pattern.  
 
Religious cults follow the same way of working, making people feel taken care of, dependant, discouraging questions and making them work for their purposes, discrediting those who question and having their followers support their beliefs and system with their whole being, discriminating against those who do not follow their "better" cookie cutter way.  
 
The same thought of being unquestioning manipulated followers can also be applied to addictive screen use. Those who created the internet did not send their children to tech schools where screens are pushed. They totally knew what they were doing, but we just follow like sheep and allow ourselves to be manipulated.  
 
Besides bit coins, and the like, what other solutions can you see as being beneficial to make change? Where should a person start if they want to change society for the better in your opinion...and is it even possible at this point to make such a large change?  
 
One suggestion...how about upholding and strengthening the basic family unit for starters...which can be very strong if nourished properly. If you divide [i]anything[/i], it is weaker. This division is easily seen with breaking up the traditional family unit in pursuit of selfishness, empty things, and giving our children to others to feed and raise.  
 
You ask where the critical thinkers are. Some of these are choosing homeschooling...and it is a constant fight to not be manipulated & compromised by the public system and those who control it and those who support it without question. Why would you question your public school "parent figure" who has essentially become the new family unit?  
 
Homeschooling is certainly one threat because it is different from the cookie cutter, unquestioning system. It does encourage questioning & independant thought and also builds on strengths and does not necessarily focus on weaknesses. It allows healthy development and mastery, encourages problem solving and questioning and effective communication.  
 
Anyway, just my two cents.

Here is a link indicating we are number one in the world with debt!  
 
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/money/topstories/congrats-canadians-you’re-world-leaders-in-debt/ar-BBFynP5?li=AAgh0dA  
 
 
When the school systems are run and governed by people do not realize that educating youth is a busness then nothing will change. They need more money raise taxes ( its for the kids!!) At the end of the year millions in surplus vs the budget that they collected taxes on then put it in the rainy day fund !  
 
In many cases teachers do not have the ability to teach something that they struggle understanding for themselves.

...it's crap.  
 
Here's the link.  
 
https://blockgeeks.com/guides/what-is-cryptocurrency/  
 
Marpet