Discussions

I''d like to know how city management, the mayor and some councillors think these salaries are sustainable. Not only salaries (entry level salaries that even private sector business owners wouldn''t/couldn''t offer to a new employee) but benefits and pensions plus vehicles & expense accounts.  
 
I wonder when the municipal governments will start pushing out the top salary employees like the provincial government is doing in healthcare? Then again, it''s always employees and not usually department heads or management.  
 
There seems to be a lack of financial understanding between the private sector and public sector.  
 
I just don''t get why they think this can continue. I''d type more but I need to go roll the change I found in the sofa so I can afford such expensive employees.  
 
Edited by Hackeda, 2018-06-22 17:57:19

Keep in mind that many of these ridiculously high salaries are thanks to the former NDP "big city ideas" of SDH who gave Brandon City employees pay equivalent to Winnipeg City employees. Despite the size difference between the cities as well as the tax revenue per capita.  
Big problem is that with unionized employees, once the pay is given it is pretty much impossible to correct to a reasonable amount. So sustainable or not, we are stuck with it. And there is pretty much nothing Rick Chrest can do about it. No sense in bitching at him. Keep in mind where the blame really lies for the inflated pay scale. (Sorry, but Brandon does not have the same amount of crime or fires/emergencies as a city of Winnipeg's size.)  
I am actually please how reasonable some of the salaries are. Especially in light of the spending spree of our former mayor.

I had to play with Excel and do some magic but...  
 
Total Regular Earnings $35,870,668.65  
Total Overtime Earnings $1,261,295.13  
 
Now I can play with data how I like...  
 
Police  
Regular Earnings $10,428,706.51  
Overtime Earnings $562,269.70  
 
Fire  
Regular Earnings $6,617,975.64  
Overtime Earnings $255,611.66  
 
Directors  
Regular Earnings $1,658,539.96  
Overtime Earnings $22,293.95  
 
Managers  
Regular Earnings $2,361,104.78  
Overtime Earnings $12,768.10  
 
City Manager is the highest total earner: $161,674.66  
Police Constable has the most overtime: $29,604.59  
 
 
Would be interesting to see how these numbers compare to other cities of similar size....

going to comment on salaries, lost cause, they are out of control, too many police, too many firefighters, but then when one is not around all hell breaks loose.  
 
what gets me is that the city has fallen prey to political correctness again. did you see what they now call a Journeyman, they are now is a Journey Person or Journey Persons. there happens to be no definitions for a journey person. the ticketed individual went to school to learn a trade and get his or hers Journeyman's ticket. to now call it a Journey Person is an insult.  
 
it was never called a journey man, it is a journeyman.  
 
that is a where the waste of city tax dollars are . to have someone sitting behind a desk and making 100,000 and come up with that kind of decision.  
 
just because a word has m-a-n someplace in the spelling does not mean you have to assume it refers to only men.  
 
if you follow the same thinking what are they going to change the word "women" and "woman" too, that must really be an insult to the female gender, opps can't use that either as it the word male in female. can't be right  
 
the decision makers are slow and not doing their job. they better get a better terminology for women, woman and female, human can't right either, thats gotta change.oh oh also menopause... gotta go.  
 
the milk on my cornflakes was sour this morning that's why I got a sour outlook tonite.

Hard to find other cities, not all provinces disclose salaries. We have something called Bill 57 Public Sector Compensation Disclosure Act. All municipalities in Manitoba are required to disclose to the public the amount of compensation it pays to officers and employees whose compensation is $50,000 or more.  
 
Ontario discloses over $100,000. Hard to find a comparison. Oh well.  
 
I think the city is doing a fine job, some people probably get paid to much but thats the case for managers and directors in all big business. Thats never going to change. Some earn it, some do not.

Must have, have bought the same milk from the same store, cause I’m i journeyman, my wife is a journeywo$&), and I’m a man and she’s wo$$&. I’m male and she’s fe$@?: I’m not sure what equality has to do with this post, gender wise most standards are equal now, the girl behind me had to pass the same test I did in order to become a journey person or journey woman. Good on the women for getting outside the stereotype of only the men are supposed to be in trades.

Thanks to Brent Bertram’s work we know the total pay for BPS.  
 
Some are trotting out the usual “this doesn’t happen in the private sector” nonsense. For comparison, all Brandon Police put together earned less than the CEO of TD Bank. I wonder which is more essential to our city ?  
 
http://www.canadianbusiness.com/lists-and-rankings/richest-people/canadas-top-100-highest-paid-ceos-2016/

is a valid argument. I for one work a job very comparable to one of the jobs listed in the report for a private company and I see 10 to 12 hour days most of the time and about 60% of the salary. So yes that does make me angry that these salaries are paid for with my tax dollars and angry because I bust my ass and take home less. So private vs. public to some people is a valid beef and opinion. Remember that perception is a big piece that allows people to formulate an opinion and we see some of these civil servants in poor light sometimes....even those badge numbers from time to time. I think salaries are out of control from this list and think that our city should consider how much of our tax bill goes to salary. I mean some of these look like gravy! Someone might say who am I to judge but frankly I don't care. Some of these are excessive.  
 
Edited by Tiger Barb, 2018-06-23 00:00:59

Should be doing a 2 year wage freeze like the MB government is in the process of doing for government employees. At one time government employees were the “overpaid” ones but one quickly can see how it is City employees. We won’t be able to afford these fancy increases for police and fire forever. The wage needs to grow at a slower pace or we will have to switch to RCMP to police the city like Red Deer.

Overtime of police and fire fighters may seem excessive. It would depend on the reason for it i.e. coverage for absenteeism of scheduled personnel or emergency call in for the recent downtown fire. I wonder what the absenteeism percentage is for employees. I think there was an issue with excessive absenteeism of fire fighters not long ago. Some of them work 2nd jobs.  
My issue is with the amount of directors, deputy directors, managers, supervisors, etc. etc. How many of those positions are critical vs nice to have? That list seems to balloon every year.

It would be even more interesting to see details on non-disclosures/payouts paid out to past employees terminated/pushed out.  
 
THAT would also be excessive, I am betting.

Look at the "last year actual" column, that should be 2017.  
 
http://www.brandon.ca/images/pdf/Finances/Financial_Plan_2018.pdf

Andrea had this comment perfectly. Wages took a HUGE skyjump when Mayor Shari was the Mayor. It is now the current Mayor and City Council to have to deal with budgeting to satisfy residents. There is no turning back once these wages were established.

standard standard h8r said "Thanks to Brent Bertram’s work we know the total pay for BPS.     Some are trotting out the usual “this doesn’t happen in the private sector” nonsense. For comparison, all Brandon Police put together earned less than the CEO of TD Bank. I wonder which is more essential to our city ?     http://www.canadianbusiness.com/lists-and-rankings/richest-people/canadas-top-100-highest-paid-ceos-2016/ "

are essential to our city! That's a no-brainer.  
 
As for myself I don't give two hoots what any CEO of any bank pulls in because my tax dollars do not line their pockets.

goshdarn said "going to comment on salaries, lost cause, they are out of control, too many police, too many firefighters, but then when one is not around all hell breaks loose.     what gets me is that the city has fallen prey to political correctness again. did you see what they now call a Journeyman, they are now is a Journey Person or Journey Persons. there happens to be no definitions for a journey person. the ticketed individual went to school to learn a trade and get his or hers Journeyman's ticket. to now call it a Journey Person is an insult.     it was never called a journey man, it is a journeyman.     that is a where the waste of city tax dollars are . to have someone sitting behind a desk and making 100,000 and come up with that kind of decision.     just because a word has m-a-n someplace in the spelling does not mean you have to assume it refers to only men.     if you follow the same thinking what are they going to change the word "women" and "woman" too, that must really be an insult to the female gender, opps can't use that either as it the word male in female. can't be right     the decision makers are slow and not doing their job. they better get a better terminology for women, woman and female, human can't right either, thats gotta change.oh oh also menopause... gotta go.     the milk on my cornflakes was sour this morning that's why I got a sour outlook tonite. "

Hey Goshdarn, where is the data saying there are "too many" firefighters and police officers? Is that factual or just your opinion? Just wondering if you could site your source for that. Surely the city hires the proper amount of staff for the size of the city? Could you also send the source that indicates none are around when they are needed? My expierence has been the opposite. If it were true that "none are around when needed" wouldn't that indicate there is not enough firefighters/police officers?  
 
Thanks!

Johnbisonbear:"As for myself I don't give two hoots what any CEO of any bank pulls in because my tax dollars do not line their pockets."  
 
But your outrageous banking fees and inflated interest dollars pay their salaries...the cost just to live is getting too high.  
 
Edited by Otta Towner, 2018-06-24 12:08:03

Otta Towner said "Johnbisonbear:"As for myself I don't give two hoots what any CEO of any bank pulls in because my tax dollars do not line their pockets."     But your outrageous banking fees and inflated interest dollars pay their salaries...the cost just to live is getting too high.     Edited by Otta Towner, 2018-06-24 12:08:03"

I use a credit union and go into the place to withdraw etc. But compare the fees that I need to pay to the bank to the taxes I have to pay? Pales in comparison.  
 
I don't think anyone who isn't literally saving people's lives are worth over 200 hundred thousand a year, not even those high paid sports figures!  
 
The thread is about the city of Brandon's employees salaries and that's why I made the comment that I did.

I was being facetious  
on my first statement i said that i was not commenting on "too many police firefighters salaries,etc. my point was that a lot of folks on blogs do complain about numbers and taxes and salaries etc, however i dont have the data or comparisons to other cities and their salaries and projections for future costs and how we sustain the train we are on. that is why I did not comment.  
 
i did say that though that the first time someone needs a police or fire they will cry bloody murder if they dont respond quickly enough,  
 
my point was about the laughable political correctness the city now uses as they now call the Jouneyman ticketed employees "Journey Persons"

I used to work for a city in Saskatchewan, a much smaller city. When I moved to Brandon I actually took a pay cut. In Saskatchewan they privatized the position for which I worked and now cities can’t match the wage the private industry makes in the same profession. So many cities are very short staffed in that department, in some cases the people working those positions are grossly under qualified. So, by comparison I’d be making much more if I moved back to Sask and did my same job in the private sector. I’m not aware of any privately operated police or fire departments. Until Brandon becomes “THE” place to live, some salaries will have to be what drives people to stay or move here.

Those salaries are out rages ,Don't know why cant get together and put a petion or something to slow this down,If that sky rocketed from Decter Hirst she should be held accountable,Cant keep this up

Red said "Those salaries are out rages ,Don't know why cant get together and put a petion or something to slow this down,If that sky rocketed from Decter Hirst she should be held accountable,Cant keep this up "

I can't see how she can be held accountable now that Mr. Chrest is the mayor....

For many of the trades workers, the City's hand is forced to follow the Manitoba Employment standard. For example, the minimum wage for an Electrician in Manitoba is $37.40..which would put his wages around the $70k mark if he earned minimum wage. Now, you think the city is going to be able to draw interest for electricians if they pay minimum wage for any position?

What I don't understand is the amount of positions and overtime. We have 4 fire captains costing half a million dollars. Now could you not get away with 2 - Day/Night with vacation days and such filled in by the next in line? What worries me is a few firemen made almost 100 grand for the year plus overtime at over 13 and 26 grand. With that much overtime how many hours are being put in, and are these people getting enough sleep? Same with officers. Should there be caps on the amount of time these people work like truck drivers. With the amount of overtime paid I cannot understand why you wouldn't pay for more officers or cadets. You never get that much more production out of anyone paying that much overtime.  
 
I don't agree what other cities are doing/paying. I am all about continuous improvement. Are these city departments running as efficiently as they can? Does an officer spend most his shift doing paperwork or can stuff like that be handed down to an aid position at a lower rate? Like a lawyer and their assistant working together. When there is a fire do we pay the 100 grand firemen to roll up hoses and such or are there cadet versions of firemen that could be doing these lesser duties.  
 
The problem I find in the public sector is the lack of need of accountability. Everything is per the collective agreement. Don't get me wrong we have some good people doing jobs but when I go to places such as the hospital and have to listen to nurses talk for 10-15 minutes about spending time at the cottage over the weekend, or another 20 minutes complaining on how hard they have to work to another co-worker, or going to a city department and listening to plans of what they are going to do that night or weekend plans and such....it means they are not actually as busy as one thinks. Thus there is room for improvement of job time management. If all you have to do is the bare minimum what incentive is there to work harder?  
 
I like how people compare CEO wages. Sure the CEO of the TD bank which is responsible for all branches makes a good wage. How about the union CEO positions and those at the top at the union? How much of your wages go to pay for these positions?

This topic comes up one way or another every June when the prev year’s disclosure comes out. I always like to stress separating the person from the position when discussing the topic since no city staff should come out of reading this thread feeling any less personally appreciated for the work they do for us and sometimes under more of a microscope than private sector jobs. I’d like to think that most opinions folks have are on the system as a whole.  
 
The most recent 7 budgets are all on the city website and so I had a look to compare the salary/wage line from year to year. Below is the percentage it went up each year  
 
2018: 2.8%  
2017: 2.5%  
2016: 5.1%  
2015: 2.2%  
--transition between prev and current Mayor/council--  
2014: 5.3%  
2013: 3.9%  
2012: 13.9%  
 
Based on that, a few comments:  
 
-inflation is the comparable for a lot of folks. In 2017 Manitoba averaged 1.6%.  
 
-the four years under the current Mayor/council saw a combined smaller percentage increase than the infamous 2012 budget all by itself  
 
-so much of this is tied to collective agreements that more or less set rates in stone for a period of years. For that reason, the results you see in any given year will in many cases be tied to decisions made a few years previous. When folks are assigning credit and blame that should in fairness be kept in mind.  
 
-What the future holds is a little uncertain since agreements made under current Mayor and Council have Fire getting a likely-over-inflation 2.95% for each of the next 3 years, E911 getting 3%. Police have one more year at a more inflation-ish 2% and then will be due for a new deal. I cant seem to find transit but that will factor in too. Based on budgeting, Mayor/council seemed to offset that 2.8% increase this year since city-wide we saw basically a nil property tax increase... but the question looms of how realistic it is for that to continue going forward. Perhaps we’ll hear more on it in the run-up to election.

We've been given this reasoning on various issues. Take a $100k salary, divide it in two, make the day an 8 hour day, no expense account and less attractive benefits (paid sick time can be abused) and there ya have more staff, less cost and hopefully, more productivity.  
 
Is there a report that I don't know about regarding the City generating business? I'd like to know $ and info on this. With these consistently rising salaries, the city cannot rely on residents to fund the run of the city.

Integritynhonesty said "It would be even more interesting to see details on non-disclosures/payouts paid out to past employees terminated/pushed out.     THAT would also be excessive, I am betting. "

This would be great to have a city hall this transparent. I think it would be great!

Hackeda said "We've been given this reasoning on various issues. Take a $100k salary, divide it in two, make the day an 8 hour day, no expense account and less attractive benefits (paid sick time can be abused) and there ya have more staff, less cost and hopefully, more productivity.     Is there a report that I don't know about regarding the City generating business? I'd like to know $ and info on this. With these consistently rising salaries, the city cannot rely on residents to fund the run of the city. "

You have complained in the past about taxes In this thread you have written about collecting coins from the furniture. Then in this post you seem to suggest that the solution to your problems is to cut other employees earnings in half and reduce their benefits. Wow !

standard standard h8r said "    Hackeda said "We've been given this reasoning on various issues. Take a $100k salary, divide it in two, make the day an 8 hour day, no expense account and less attractive benefits (paid sick time can be abused) and there ya have more staff, less cost and hopefully, more productivity.     Is there a report that I don't know about regarding the City generating business? I'd like to know $ and info on this. With these consistently rising salaries, the city cannot rely on residents to fund the run of the city. " You have complained in the past about taxes In this thread you have written about collecting coins from the furniture. Then in this post you seem to suggest that the solution to your problems is to cut other employees earnings in half and reduce their benefits. Wow ! "

You are incredibly naïve if you think people aren't struggling. Maybe you are one of the lucky ones that doesn't have to question the amount of money you spend when purchasing anything!  
 
I went to pay my tax bill, there was a young woman there asking the clerk why her taxes went up so much. I asked her, did yours go up 'this much', no she said three times that much, the year is only half over and we have nothing left. 'Just kill me now' she said to me that was distressing to hear. I told her wait until the carbon tax comes in.  
 
There is plenty of ways the city could cut corners and there is ways that the city could add to their coffers without asking for an increase every year. And yes I realize that this mayor and council have held the line but there are people out there barely making it, but hey! Glad to hear Standard you're not one of them. Enjoy!