Discussions

I often wonder about a new road coming off the lighted intersection at the mid point of corral center that follows the base of the hill and ties into the original road a few hundred yards down, maybe make it a gentle curve.  
 
Or maybe that experimental field is highly specific for the research facility and they don't want it disturbed, hard to say.

They need to do something! It’s ridiculous to put it in all the time and leave it up for months at a time. Save the money of constantly doing it and spend it up front for a permanent fix! Only problem is it’s up to the province to do this, not the city.  
 
The plug should have come down a long time ago. If there is still a major concern with the dam at Rivers, then why did they allow the people downstream, in immediate danger of the flood, to move back in over a month ago? Why are boaters allowed on Rivers lake? It is a load of bull on the Cities part! There has also been rumblings that they want to leave it up until next spring which is totally unacceptable! The RM is not getting any extra money to maintain the gravel roads because of the extra traffic. I know what the roads are like now I can’t even imagine what they will be like in the winter with all the traffic and snow. City better step up and help maintain the snow plowing.  
 
It’s not only an inconvenience for the residents but now the buses are going to have to go out of the way adding more time to the commute.  
 
Yes I am a frustrated Grand Valley person!

My in-laws live on grand valley. It’s such an inconvenience to go there now because of the plug. It’s sad there isn’t a permanent solution.

Cheapest solution would be put the plug in permanently and improve access to highway 1.

Any word on it coming out? This is so stupid already!

I think Mr. Kayes and the cities Emergency Preparedness Dept gets advice from Chicken Little. They are obviously being over cautious and the residents and businesses beyond the plug are suffering for it. The Rivers dam stood up to the high levels it was subjected to. It's not going to fail now and even if it did start to fail it would not be a catastrophic failure, it would be partial or gradual. Remove the plug already.

Mr. Gorbachev, pull out the plug.

I vote to close it permanently, improve access from trans canada. its tax payers in the rural RM that rely on this road not Brandon tax payers. I know Ill get reemed out for this lol.

Lets block the underpass in Kemnay too so no more semis can hit it

Why don't we close off your street and force you to drive an extra 20km to get anywhere and in the meantime, the roads you will need to drive on to get anywhere will be so poorly maintained, and not designed for the level of traffic using them that your vehicle will become damaged too.  
 
A permanent solution would be to move the road towards the north.  
 
The situation is completely ridiculous at this point. Have some empathy.

Brandon was told in the 1980's not to building where the Corral Centre, etc. is as it was a flood plane. They did not listen and now the people on Grand Valley Road are paying. I live on Grand Valley and it is very inconvenient to say it politely. Why should we be penalized.

 
 
Edited by dougdoug, 2020-09-03 13:21:31

I got some empathy but there is no way you can say that the 3.2 extra miles it takes to get to 34th street & grand valley road is 20km. You dont need to over exaggerate the situation here, I get it probably takes 5-7 minutes to go the extra few miles on a busy day but we all have worse things in life to complain about.

Your sadly mistaken. Can be closer to 30 in peak rush hour times.

I wonder what the cost would be to raise the entirety of the roadbed.  
 
Basically, raise the highway to at least the level of the cities dike system, but have culverts that allow floodwaters to distribute in the same way that they currently do in a flood. Thereby causing less of a bottleneck then the city dikes already do. Not to mention lowering the possibility that a grand valley road solid dike could cause raised levels for residents upstream from the road.  
 
Too expensive?  
 
Edited by Simonwalcal, 2020-09-03 15:56:33

Just did a distance from the Paw Spa to the intersection of Grand Valley and 18th. Taking the longest way which is the mile road to the west to the TC is 14km. Taking Hunter or 34th st. to intersection is 10.5km. Direct on Grand Valley is 5.6km. So roughly 16km round trip worst case or 10km round trip using other roads to TC. Out of that you are 2 miles each way on gravel. This is like the 8th st. bridge debate. For such a low population that lives on the road for the millions and millions to raise and repave the road or invest much less for improvement on the access roads to the Hwy 1.

I’m not being hyperbolic.  
 
Use google earth, and measure the distance from Jerome drive to Leon’s. Going around by Kemnay is exactly 20km.  
 
If you take the trans Canada and go to the north side of the city so you end up by Princess Auto, it’s also about 15km or so.  
 
The gravel roads are faster, sure, but they are in such poor shape they are dangerous and damaging to your vehicle. They are almost unusable.  
 
If you don’t believe me, I encourage you to take a drive. Follow the service road in front of Windsor Plywood all the way down to grand valley and have fun. When you realize how terrible that road is, see if Hunter or Marsden is any better. When you conclude that all 3 gravel roads are terrible take the highway back and watch your odometer.  
 
Then think to yourself if you would enjoy that drive everyday since July. Then ask yourself how you would feel if your access to the city was rerouted in such a way.  
 
This situation is completely ridiculous. Something needs to be done.

Go drive on those gravel roads. Seriously. They are not designed for hundreds of people to be using them multiple times a day.  
 
Start with the research station road. Then hunter, and then marsden.  
 
You will quickly realize those roads are not acceptable, and determine that the highway is the only safe option.  
 
It’s 20km from the Paw Spa to Kemnay, and about 15km to Tim Hortons on the hill.  
 
 
Honestly, if you really think that grand valley should be closed off permanently I encourage you to take a Sunday drive down the roads.  
 
And how would you like it if your access to the city was rerouted in such a way? A way that forces you to pick between wrecking your vehicle or burning triple the gas and adding a solid 20 minutes to your commute.

The detour doubles my commute time each way at least. Hunter Rd. is the smoothest since they treated it but it is posted as 50kph. One way it adds 8-12 minutes .With our busy household we come to town 3-5 times a day sometimes. Not to mention more fuel, can't keep the car clean and I got a stone bruise yesterday.  
For those suggesting they raise the road, that would be a major undertaking. 18th would have to be raised from the flat bridges to the gas station and Braecrest would have to come up back past Home depot to keep the slope reasonable.  
For those suggesting close the road permanently and pave a road up to #1 that's just crazy.  
Another reasonable idea might be to run the dike right up to the road and have cement walls on either side of the road. It would leave a much smaller opening to fill if needed. They would have to deal with water coming down the hill somehow. Some kind of closable culvert maybe.

I can only imagine the hand wringing and gnashing of teeth if the Rivers dam HAD failed and the plug wasn’t in.  
Oh, my!! Wouldn’t the politicians have looked like a bunch of mental deficients then!  
I choose to worry about Covid 19 instead.

For those saying it’s not a big deal for the few people it affects obviously have never travelled Grand Valley very often. It is a busy road with more and more people moving out that way. Closing it off would not go over. Also, what about all the people that work at the research station? That is in city limits. City limits go out to Turtle crossing. What about the house on the south side of grand valley in city limits? Is it the most efficient for the garbage truck to drive around to pick up their garbage instead of just down the road?  
 
No one is saying that they shouldn’t have put in the dam. There was legitimate concern about the dam and the need for the plug. The problem is how long they have left it up for. There was already an inspection of the dam done that said it didn’t sustain any damage and allowed people to move back in to their homes downstream. Have you seen the river level ?! It is not high, go to the bridge on #1 just west of town and you can see how low it is.  
 
Maybe someone from the province should be getting contacted since it’s falling of deaf ears at the city and it’s a provincial road.

I rarely travel grand valley road but I can see the benefits it provides to the city of brandon besides for residents, businesses and the research station, its one more access out of the city in an emergency or major street shutdown.  
 
A couple people have mentioned other access roads, I didn't realize 34th st had access to grand valley road and what about this windsor plywood route, did they build a bridge across the river or something down there lately or has this access always been there ?  
 
Interesting, I get the reference to 34th st now, they named that turkey trail of a gravel road going past the research station 34th st, I kept thinking they built a bridge down by the golf course lol  
 
The simplest and straightest route would be to extend braecrest to "34th St" but then that might affect the research station and also further complicate the braecrest and 18th intersection.  
 
Edited by hutchster, 2020-09-03 23:39:37

34th street doesn't cross the river and connect to the Grand Valley road. It stops just South of the tracks at Pacific Ave. There are plans to have 34th extended with a level crossing over the CPR tracks this winter/spring to join with McDonald Ave. There are no plans to go over the river and connect with the Valley road. People may be getting confused with the reference with 34th. It's just a point with regards to Brandon's flood protection which has been upgraded in the past years that begins roughly at that point near the river and continues all through the "flood zone" and ending past First street. Those upgrades include the controversial Grand Valley Plug at 18th street and the discussion is based on how that plug was designed, managed and the effects to property and residents in the valley. Many, yet don't realize the disorder caused by these flood protection upgrades to folks outside of the city limits. Stupidity and greed with some additional stupidity from development from the past thirty years within Brandon has put a strain in the natural flow of the Assiniboine watershed. The river doesn't flow properly anymore and easily backs up and goes over its banks regularly, but unpredictably. Most of this can be blamed to the bottleneck created by Brandon's flood protection network. This discussion is focused on the frustration with the design and handling of one part of the network... the Grand Valley road "plug" set up West of 18th street. Hopefully that clear things up.  
 
Just my opinion, I could be wrong.

34th Street does end at the river but it also starts again at the grand valley road and goes up to the trans canada (this road is also known at rd 111W, This is the boundary road for the edge of City of Brandon and the City of Brandon shares the maintenance cost of it with the RM. To people that are saying its more then an EXTRA dozen kms or more to go around you are simply wrong, It is exactly 6.8km to go upto the Trans Canada from kirkcaldy drive, one mile west and then come back down 34th Street (rd 111W) down to the grand valley road, you would of travelled 1.6km to go from 18th Street to 34th street anyways so you only have an EXTRA 5.2km (3.2 miles). no one can say they now have to travel a dozen extra km due to this, thats just BS, if you go all the way out to the underpass at trans and assiniboine and come all the way back that is your issue not anyone elses. Since road 111w is the boundary road and maintenance is shared with the City of Brandon people who are saying this is costing the RM waaayyy to much money, use this roadway and not road Hunters Rd or Marsden Rd as yes that cost of maintenance on the other two roads is 100% the RM.

Yes, the gravel roads are fewer KM's to the city, but you're forgetting the condition they are in. That's one of the worst parts about the plug. Yes, you can take gravel roads that are closer to the city but at the cost of wrecking your vehicle. You have the choice between wrecking your vehicle on the gravel, and driving on unsafe roads or taking the long way around. The speed limit is lower than Grand Valley too, and rightfully so, and that still adds time to your commute.  
 
These gravel roads are not smooth, nice country gravel roads. They are horrible. If you think I am bluffing, go take a cruise down all of them. Seriously. Its not acceptable.  
 
The roads are so washboard it's damaging to your vehicle and unsafe. They aren't made for hundreds of people to be driving on them multiple times a day.  
 
*Washboard. Roads. Are. Unsafe. To. Drive. On. Google it.*  
 
If you think I'm exaggerating, feel free to take a drive on the 111W road you are referencing. A few days of that commute will make you think twice about using them. Try it out.  
 
The highway is the only option that does not destroy your vehicle, and again, the gravel roads are so bad they are unsafe.  
 
Imagine how you would feel if your street had a dump truck of dirt dropped on it and you have to choose between a "short cut" (which is still adds a lot of time to your commute) that will wreck your vehicle. Or, option 2 is taking a 15 or 20km detour to get home.  
 
Edited by kärlek, 2020-09-04 11:45:35

Yup. Drove a friend home since I drive a Jeep with oversized all terrain tires. Roads are a joke. Wouldn’t even want to drive a jeep or truck of any kind down those roads multiple times a day. Can’t imagine those driving smaller vehicles.

The permanent solution is to raise 18th street up to above the dike level between the David Thompson Bridge (river) and the bottom of the North Hill. Close the southbound lanes, raise those first and bring Grand Valley Road up to meet that. Quickly raise the grade of Kircaldy up to the same level and complete that intersection. Move all the traffic to the completed lanes and then raise the northbound lanes.  
 
Yes, the Corral Centre entrances/exits would have to be raised, and it would probably affect the Safeway gas bar access negatively, but it is a permanent solution that I would guess would be better engineered than a hastily constructed emergency plug. The dike system is only as strong as its weakest point, and I cannot say that that plug is not something that makes me nervous.

Its only a matter of time before someone is going to get hurt on those roads. People on ebrandon who don't have to drive on them and probably never have driven on them are downplaying how bad the roads are.

What about this, make a new service road that ties into safeway gasbar intersection goes west maybe 20 or 30 feet and runs north to the base of the hill and then goes straight west and connects at the research station road down to original grand valley road, at that corner make a gentle curve you can take at speed and eliminate the section of road between there and 18th st.  
 
And then build your permanent dike all the way to the corner that will essentially be due west of ashley furniture where the service road turns and goes west.  
 
I made a a paint picture of my thoughts, feel free to critique, red line is the new road, black line is permananet dike  
 
As a side bonus they could tie braecrest into the new road eliminating the sketchy interection at the top of the hill, or atleast minimizing traffic if they left access where it is  
 
Edited by hutchster, 2020-09-04 16:57:49

I’ve said it before and will say it again !  
Put a big U in the dike and make it a gentle up and over back a ways from 18th street so vision is not impaired at the junction  
If this would have done when the first plugs where put in and the dirt removed and dumped making the U , the dike problem would have been fixed !!