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So we have now had at least two variants from Covid 19. How many more are to come and how potent will they be? A virus like this apparently can continue to mutate so what happens if we get a variant from this that is so deadly that no vaccine can beat it? Then what? Will the anti vaxxers take it seriously then? Will people finally realize that they are not entitled to anything ? Will it wipe out mankind? Does anyone have the answers to these questions? It’s starting to become very worrisome and I am nervous about it. How many more waves? Do the scientists and health officials even know and are they not allowed to say to avoid mass panic? All I know is you can’t sugarcoat this and laugh it off or blink it away. Been almost two years and we are basically spinning our wheels. Anyone have some good concrete ideas that will stop this pandemic? Lots of questions and very little answers so far.

I wouldn’t worry about it, “only 2 more weeks”

If you seriously want to stop an epidemic you have to make unpopular difficult decisions that people are not going to like for the sake of public health.  
Shut down all international and all unnecessary travel for the foreseeable future until disease control is achieved.  
Mandatory full vaccination with the exception of valid medical exemptions.  
Mandatory mask wearing .  
Quarantine means quarantine, total separation from other people.  
Shut down social gatherings, sporting events, concerts and non essential shopping.  
Mandatory working from home where possible.  
Shut schools and mandatory remote learning.  
 
Edited by Farmergeorge, 2021-12-15 17:45:44

Farmer George all good suggestions but that’s all they ever end up being. The big corporations don’t play by those rules they need their money. So flights continue to fly, travellers continue to travel, people continue to gather, just an endless circle of failure. All talk no action kind of world we live in these days. 20 % of people don’t even care. They are above it all. Greed will keep us in this mess forever. We need a hero.

You asked what needed to be done. I told you.  
I have lived through and experienced a previous epidemic and experienced what it took to stop it.  
If leaders and politicians don’t have the balls to take the necessary actions and the public don’t have the discipline to do as they are told then we will not stop or even slow the spread of covid 19 for a very long time.  
 
Edited by Farmergeorge, 2021-12-15 18:10:00

Isn’t that what I just said? The normal and hopeful channels are not working. Who will step up? Maybe that’s why there’s so much space launch activity these days in trying to get to Mars or other planets. Maybe someone else sees the future of the conditions on this planet as doomed. When the politicians and government and so- called people that we are supposed to trust fail us what are we to do? Do we just continue to cycle through the same old same old or do like the next poster suggests and let the weak and vulnerable and stubborn just die? You can’t just give up.

Here’s a good example of what we are up against. The news headlines today say that Ontario will offer everyone 18 and over booster shots. Meanwhile the Alberta Government is allowing more people including the unvaccinated to attends large gatherings before Christmas. How do you make sense of that?

Deadliest Enemies by Michael Osterholm, a world renowned epidemiologist and virologist, it is recognized that a virus is neither alive nor dead, it is technically in the fine line between the two, and that no matter what, we will always be one step behind a virus. It's purpose is to adapt, change, evolve and survive. Does this mean we as a species are doomed? No, it means we are just going to have to do our best to minimize impact, spread and effect, which is the challenge.  
Currently, the virus' have only reached a second level of threat, that being a Variant of Concern, which means there is potential for vaccine evasion(this doesn't mean vaccines are ineffective, though, as vaccine and booster use still minimizes spread and symptoms). If we get to a level three event, called a Variant of Consequence, then we are in trouble, but it doesn't necessarily mean we won't have a chance to still alter the trajectory. The biggest thing to understand is that we must continue to monitor a virus pathway and use our best resources to trace infections in order to alter the trajectory.  
 
Remember that as a virus travels through region to region, culture to culture, population to population, it picks up dna "info" and it changes and adapts according to the new "ingredients" which is why we see variants. This is why there is no true"cure" for even seasonal influenza. At the beginning of a flu season, vaccine producers aim at the global region which typically starts off the flu spread, and use samples of that specific strain to "build" the vaccine will work on it. Again though, a virus is incredibly adaptive, which is why some people don't see what they consider to be protection against the flu late in the flu season. This doesn't mean it they are useless, in fact, it actually further supports why early use and detection is important in prevention and treatment.  
 
Remember that at one time, rabies had a 100% mortality rate, but thanks to science, we were able to minimize, treat, and basically contain rabies to a point that it is no longer a threat. Same with many different virus' throughout history. Even though we are always a step behind, we can still get positive momentum and "catch up" enough to create a good outcome.  
 
The problem we will face more is actually our own fractured efforts to contain and reduce transmission. Obviously this comes from those who are resistant to using vaccines for a variety of reasons, and also from low vacination rates in regions that are unable to provide rapid access in the efforts to contain and treat infections.  
 
I could go on and on about the problems we face, but to be honest, my opinion of anti vaxxers or the "anti-everything" crowd isn't a good one, so it's best I avoid the topic by saying that we must continue to do what we can through rapid access to testing, occasional isolations and restrictions to help reduce the strain on health care facilities, and just keep practicing good common sense in our societal movement to reduce transmission until our vaccines and immune systems build up better defenses and allows for stronger community immunity to prevent strain development and movement. Trust the experts, that's what they are there for.  
 
I know tensions are high, and resistance to change is evident, but unfortunately, nothing about this fight will be easy or perfect. Our biggest strain is the one we create for ourselves by continuing to promote divison instead of unity, regardless of what side our beliefs lean towards. Just do the right thing for your neighbors sake, and consider their safety and protect them the best way you can, evey day. The results will speak for themselves one day, guaranteed.  
 
Edited by Xplanation, 2021-12-15 19:16:00

The idea that the Earth is overpopulated is a common eco-facist talking point that has little ground to stand on. Please come up with a "better" reason to let people get sick and die other than the gross idea that "the Earth is overpopulated and we should fix that problem".

Think of it like this.  
 
If you look at what has happened in Alberta since start of pandemic you will see the clear message is.  
 
Alberta Premier is missing more than a few of the crayon colours.  
 
For those who don’t understand the saying. Less brain cells are working.

Responding to 3 comments made in this thread:  
 
1.)While South Africa was the first country to report the new variant that does not mean it originated there. I saw an article stating that Omicron was likely already halfway around the world when South Africa reported the symptoms of a new more infectious covid variant.  
 
2) Since the beginning of this pandemic people have questioned and criticized public health measures as either too strong or not strong enough. At the beginning of this pandemic, no one knew what covid virus was capable of. Because of this severe restrictions were necessary. Now we are almost 2 years into this and public health officials are trying to strike a balance to keep as many people safe and to keep our economies going. No one wants to see a return to a complete lockdown. People who want stronger measures are just as bad as those people who ignore the measures. Both groups create chaos.  
 
3) to the comments about the world being over populated and to open everything up and let covid have its way, that is pure ignorance and disregard for the sanctity of life that every person on this planet has the right to.

Have you lost loved ones or had relatives contract covid 19? I have both and that is why stronger vaccination measures and tighter restrictions are necessary. If you don’t agree wait a while and see what happens. I’ve lived through a previous epidemic.

This, many times over.  
 
Farmergeorge, what epidemic have you lived through that the rest of have missed?

There was the Asian Flu in 1957-1958 that killed between 1 and 4 million. The Hong Kong Flu in 1968 to 1970 that killed between 1 and 4 million as well. The Russian Flu in 1977-1979, which killed about 700,000. These are all worldwide. They do not compare to the death toll of COVID-19 as it is as low as 5.3 million to possibly over 20 million.

Foot and mouth disease in animals which is highly contagious and millions of animals were infected. The outbreak was controlled and eliminated within a year through culling of infectious animals and contiguous culling which we can’t use in humans as it would be immoral. Movement restrictions were also used and were highly effective. A vaccine was available but was not used due to potential marketing issues.  
In this covid pandemic we have the luxury of testing and multiple proven safe and effective vaccines, masking and if we would just restrict movement of people in an effective way for a short few months we could get ahead of it. We talk about an individuals rights to be vaccinated or not and an individuals right to travel and move freely.  
A pandemic is not about an individual. We must each consider everyone else and act collectively by doing the right things. This covid virus must be controlled using the multiple means available to us. You won’t have much freedom anyway if you end up on a ventilator.

My comment about extreme views on public health restrictions leading to chaos relates to the importance of striking a balance where the majority of people are as safe as possible, hospitals are not overwhelmed and the economy continues to function. I suspect it is a fine line public health officials walk. Making restrictions too tough and people revolt and protest leading to super spreader events. Too few restrictions and the virus spreads unchecked. Even with current restrictions people are complaining and refusing to follow the rules. Stronger vaccination mandates, though I am all for them especially in all areas of health care/education/institutional settings, may again cause protests leading to super spreader events. Either way it is a damned if you do or damned if you don't scenerio.  
I do not know where the 'balance' is if there is one as people will always complain and resist being told what to do. I do agree with your statement that while individual rights are a privilege we enjoy in Canada, the health of the community comes first and all people should work to protect the community. I just do not know how it would be inforced.  
 
Edited by Spades!!, 2021-12-20 09:21:20

• Vaccinated individuals can become infected with COVID-19.  
• Testing a vaccinated population is done to: monitor the spread of SARS-CoV-2 and its VoCs, particularly potential vaccine escape variants.  
 
Both points listed above are from the Government of Canada website under “Testing for Covid 19 in Vaccinated Populations.” This information was published in August 2021.  
 
The link is posted below:  
https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/services/diseases/coronavirus-disease-covid-19/testing-screening-contact-tracing/testing-vaccinated-populations.html  
 
Edited by Mandy6, 2021-12-20 11:31:21