Discussions

Anyone have any idea why there is so many new beggars in the Corral centre? Same with superstore? I'm afraid to even go to superstore now! Every time I've went in the past month I've seen someone stealing, the past 2 were women with their children running away from superstores loss prevention guy! Just last night there was a group of girls that were fighting and one started stabbing another girl!  
 
As for the begging for money... I get its a hard time for some people, but I saw one of the ladies get into a newer vehicle after walking out of the intersection she was begging in. I know these people make good money doing it too. I use to work in downtown winnipeg and got acquainted with a panhandler that was in the same spot every day and he told me made an average of $150 a day!  
 
What is happening to this city???

I have seen an increase in this as well.  
 
By the corral centre someone was was smoking and holding a sign asking for money. I don't smoke. But I could not afford to smoke even if I wanted to.  
 
These people have to be getting a lot of handouts or they would not continue to do this.  
 
I would far rather donate my extra money to a reputable charity over someone smoking and holding a sign.  
 
Times are tough for everyone no doubt. But I do not give them money. Call me heartless. I bust my butt to support me and my family.

Superstore has been feeling very unsafe for a long time now. People often follow you to your car and get quite angry when you don’t give them money. The stabbing yesterday just reinforced the fact that I will no longer shop at superstore if they can’t provide security at the door in the parking lot. If you want me to shop at your establishment, you need to make it a safe environment

There is no question that panhandling is increasing all over Brandon. If you post a comment on the negative effect this has, be prepared to be labeled as cruel, elitist and uncaring. I don't agree with panhandling for two reasons: 1. Most are doing it on the narrow medians at stop lights. The potential for a bad outcome is imminent. 2. Are you really helping someone by keeping them in the bad spot they are in? Would you think you were helping an alcoholic if you gave him a bottle of booze every morning? It's a complicated issue and there are many people in our community that need a hand up. Still, I think it is wrong that "regular" people are made to feel uncomfortable as they go about their regular daily routines.

I don't think the two issues have much in common other than the fact that they both make you uncomfortable.  
 
| "What is happening to this city???"  
 
In regards to panhandling:  
The city is growing and now has areas of heavy foot traffic that appeal to panhandlers. (Coral Centre, Mall area). If you live in Brandon you see these folks all the time now and they don't seem to cause anyone any harm. Assume having them around is normal, going forward.  
 
In regards to crime:  
MB also has a higher (than the national average) percentage of the population living in poverty, although this doesn't speak to Brandon specifically. Poverty contributes to crime.  
 
I think we are just in the midst of growing pains as a city, at a time of economic hardship for many.

you say we should just assume its normal going forward.  
 
To me that is a head in the sand answer. Seeing more panhandlers is a statement of the state of things in the city. If there were better systems in place for homeless and those living with mental health issues, then there shouldn't be panhandlers.  
 
We know there is an issue with more people living in poverty. How do we fix THAT?

It's a complex answer, but part of it boils down to an uptick in poverty and homelessness here in Brandon. It was in the news last week that, for example, the Safe and Warm shelter at Samaritan House is at capacity despite having been enlarged not that many years ago ( https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/homeless-safe-and-warm-crisis-1.6614702 ). Places like Helping Hands are serving an increasing number of meals. The number of food bank clients are up dramatically.  
 
The reasons for this uptick is complex and multi-facited, but the simple answer, generally, is that there has been a sharp increase in need in our community, and not enough resources to deal with it. The reasons for *that*, however, are complex.

 
 
at 45 minutes to 48 minutes of this video the chief of police explains the enforcement options focusing on pan handling and the plan for future changes to the community standard bylaw that is being developed.

https://www.youtube.com/c/CityofBrandonMB  
 
refer to sept 20th special meeting at 45 minutes to 48 minutes of this video the chief of police explains the enforcement options focusing on pan handling and the plan for future changes to the community standard bylaw that is being developed.  
 
Edited by Oh Canada, 2022-10-19 22:34:44

This isn't just a local thing, this is happening all over Canada, and the US. As those of us with disposable income have to watch our money a little closer, there are those that have been pushed right out of their homes and onto the streets.  
 
I was in Hamilton a couple of weeks and stayed in the downtown, and they are facing the exact same thing, Winnipeg and Regina also have the same struggles, and similar sized Cities such as Moose Jaw and Prince Albert have been experiencing this issue for years.  
 
Providing support does help, but it also leads to more people needing them flocking to our City, this happens in Vancouver as well. As mentioned in other posts, this is a complex issue that cannot be resolved by Council alone. There has to be housing, addiction, and employment aid to those that need it. What people tend to forget is the impact this has on families. Children are more exposed to homelessness than ever before, and if they aren't diverted from the streets they may become "lifers", which only perpetuates the issue.  
 
This is an issue that all levels of government have to come together and find a solution. Right now, all 3 levels ae working separately to solve the problem and it obviously isn't working.  
 
At the end of the day, criminalizing homelessness is NOT the solution.

I was at superstore yesterday at about 730 pm . The canopy over the entrance had one light on out of I estimate 8. On the outside of the building there were at least 5 lights not working. Were they burnt out or on a timer that was not working properly? Either way is the safety of your customers that help pay your wage and the profits of the company not one of your highest priorities?  
 
The issue with panhandling is if they can't pay why fine them seems not to be dealing with the real issue. If the option is to relocate them if they do not stop then that should be what the police do. If a person is not held responsible for their actions, how will they be encouraged to change if they can't or won't do it themselves? Is their personal safety and safety of the community from them getting hurt not a priority as well?  
 
If a person breaks a law causing damage to others property do the police and judges just say they have no money so, why bother? Who makes that decision? If the person needs help, then make them get the help and part of the condition of the release from the charges or restitution.

Part of the unfortunate reality is that as PrimeConvoy stated a couple replies ago, "there are those that have been pushed right out of their homes and onto the streets."  
 
All of us are closer to being homeless than we are to being millionaires. There's a number of factors involved, but I imagine a decent chunk of these people were just barely able to afford a place to live until a landlord, loss of income, or something else pushed them out of their homes. We are all feeling the strain of inflation, increased cost of gas, groceries, etc. If our wallets are feeling this much lighter, imagine how much that can impact someone living paycheque to paycheque.

So, easy just fine them. A police officer could have easily issued a fine and sent them on their way. What should that fine be? If you or I choose to stand at a corner somewhere, should we also get a fine just for standing somewhere? Is simply not having a roof over your head and food in your belly an offense that should be penalized?  
 
What you are suggesting is stamping out the symptom, nd ignoring the cause. For ages, we have made homelessness and addiction illegal, and look where it has gotten us.

per the video it is considered loitering. There is a community standard bylaw that is being written to address panhandling and loitering. Linking the act to homelessness is an assumption. Drugs and alcohol maybe related but not always. Are we to allow people to stand on a median and put themselves and others lives in danger? If and when someone runs over one of these people or is scared by the person standing on a median and runs over a pedestrian or hits another vehicle is that going to be, ok?  
 
Is drinking or shooting up in a public park an offence? Is vandalizing and stealing from people's property ok. Is stealing from stores and clothing donation bins not a big deal. If you attach drugs and alcohol and homelessness to these then it should be, ok?

https://brandon.ca/downtown-business-resource-guide  
 
In this link is a bylaw that related to Loitering on public or private property.

I have emailed our leaders for years and they promise to get back you you but never do.  
 
I was on assistance for years barely making enough to make rent let alone my my medication and food.  
 
Even though I have a physical disability and that I am in excruciating pain every day I found a job and am happy to say I am off assistance as they never helped me. Even when I contacted my counsellor and he/she said yes I can help you with that and then guess what nothing....  
 
I'm sorry I don't qualify for any minority group even though I am technically metis. (and is hard to get a job if your not).  
 
I just got up in the morning put in my best clothes and searched for a job.

I added a photo of the trash that gets left behind also.

That picture is nothing compared to the mess that other people leave in the parking lots after eating Mcdonalds food.

How much do you want to pay to deal with this in the manner you suggest?  
 
There are not sufficient police to deal with each panhandler, addict, loiterer and do patrols/answer calls. How much are you willing to pay to hire the required cops?  
 
When the person defaults on their fine since they are broke they go to court. The courts are overfull already. We would need more public defenders, more crown, more judges, more courtrooms and more holding cells to deal with the influx you would have them endure. How much are you willing to pay for that?  
 
Once they are convicted they will be in jail - otherwise what is the point right? That means more CO's, more cells, more overhead. How much are you willing to pay for that?  
 
You are advocating the most expensive and least effective approach to this problem because, in the end, these people need to be made to suffer in order to force them into productivity. How much are you willing to pay to make sure they suffer? How much is it worth to you?  
 
Those aren't rhetorical questions.  
 
There are cheaper and more effective approaches to these problems but they impose dignity and respect as opposed to judgement and misery so there is loud opposition to implementing them.  
 
I ask again, how much are you willing to pay to ensure their continuing suffering?

I heard someone say (who happens to run a City department) say, "You cannot fine someone into prosperity".  
 
That will stick with me. If you want to get people off the streets and become functioning members of the community, simply issuing fines is not the way to go.  
 
I want my City to be better, and punishing people who have become marginalized isn't the way to do it.

There are three main panhandlers. One has been doing it for 3 years plus. You ask good questions. Maybe a question to them is what would it take for them to stop?  
 
How much are we spending on services to support helping these people? What will make them change? Many are content with the life they live. Only they can change.  
 
It is sad that people can conduct themselves and break bylaws and laws because they can't pay fines. If a person can pay fines, should they be treated different?  
 
Why not allow people to set up tent cities like Winnipeg. Why are they taking them down? Is it for the protection of those that live in them or the people that don't? All good questions as well. All the support services in the world will not change a person that doesn't want to change.