Discussions

Nordberg said "Now I understand why this topic becomes so impossible to discuss... people do not realize how far out their numbers are.     The median home price for Brandon did not hit $100,000 until 2003. When I saw people batting around that number for 1980 I almost fell off my chair.     http://creastats.crea.ca/brnd/mls/images/mls05_chart01_median_single_detached_hi-res.png "

I was using the number $100,000 not as a median price in the 80's, but a price that got you a brand new very fancy home. A comparable number today for a brand new basic home is quadruple that.  
 
Maybe not the best comparison, as it totally derailed this conversation in to one of entitlement and living beyond your means. Not everyone can afford s brand new home, but the numbers were just for example.  
 

Now this isn't my idea but it's one that I agree with. In the discussions leading up to the increase in wages in the US there was one simple idea that seemed to come through. The idea was one that dealt more with people than economics. The idea is once people feel they are no longer in the game they leave the game, which means they make use of social programs. Not meaning this as an insult to those who use social programs but social programs are a net loss to society.  
 
Most people who run business seem to have no problem inreasing prices to cover increases in cost, now that becomes limited by competition, but in a closed economy, which applies to our economy in many sectors, increases in costs are reflected by all raising prices usually at the same time so competition becomes a moot point.  
 
I have heard you express your opinion many times on the social assistance issue, so it comes down to do you want to pay someone to do something or pay someone to do nothing. You mentioned that we can't look at the world from 30 plus years ago, and with that I agree, but one also has to look at how much our world has changed in as far as bettering ones self and receiving compensation for the cost involved in doing so. That part of the world has changed much in the last few years and is going to change drastically in the next few, and not for the better.

Butterflymbca said "Comparing 2015 to 1980 is pointless. We are where we are, we cannot go back so what's the point of arguing over 30 years that we cannot change.     Since Jellybean wants to discuss economic theory and I have actually studied economics at the University Level, I will say that the one thing almost all economists agree on is that raising minimum wage increases inflation and unemployment.     Raising minimum wage is not something governments do to boost the economy, it is a political maneuver not an economic one.     The fact remains that regardless of whether minimum wage is $5 or $50, a minimum wage job will earn you a minimum wage lifestyle because everything else will adjust.     You don't want a minimum wage lifestyle? It is up to you to increase your earning potential. "

Economics is a large part of my university degree. So you are not the only one with this education.  
 
Raising minimum wage may in fact be the wrong move as you say, but there is economic impact, it is not just some political maneuver as you say.  
 
What is even more of a problem is the continual rise of the wages of high income earners. Every time teachers and professors, and government official and nurses, etc. DEMAND major pay increases it widens that gap more and more between the rich and the poor. These people are the ones dictating what minimum wage lifestyle will be like. Not every industry allows foot stomping temper tantrum strikes every time someone wants a raise. If a bunch of clothing sales clerks said they'd strike if they didn't get their raise, their employer would get rid of them.  
 
It is greed that drives our economy these days, and I don't see how that can be disputed. It is the rich that make the decision on what minimum wage lifestyle will look like. It is just a fact that it takes a lot more to get started in life than even 10 years ago. You keep arguing about people living beyond their means, and that home ownership is a privilege, not a right, etc. That isn't the point here. The point here is that it takes more to get less these days, and there isn't a simple fix. Raising minimum wage won't help, hell maybe greedy people demanding outrageous raises (which in turn effect property taxes, etc.), need to stop and just sit on their same wage for a few years to let thing try and even out a bit. We all know that wont happen though.  
 
Lastly, to whichever poster it was that said that having children is a privilege and not a right....where the heck did you come up with that. This is a personal choice, it is neither a privilege or a right. It will be a sad day if people can't have children because the economy has dictated that choice.  

When these types of subject come up it is interesting to see all the opinions.  
 
In Brandon we have seen a lot of immigration in the last 10 years. I think it is interesting how many of these people come to Brandon for a better life. Many own homes and cars and many other items that I am sure would not be possible in many places they were born in. Maybe some of us , me included, need to look at the way these people live and see that other options exist other than the way we as 4th and 5th generation Canadian live.  
 
May live in homes with on or more families and extended families. These homes are both bought and rented. They share cars or take mass transit, walk or bike.  
 
Many of us hit the lottery being born in Canada. Living in Brandon as well. When you see people in other parts of the world putting their lives on the line for a hope of a better life for them and their children it should make us thank full for what we have.  
 
As other posters have said we all have a choice as much as we may not think we do. Your choices in life are your choices. Take personal responsibility for were you are and then it is up to you to keep on the road you are on or go in another direction.  
 

Jellybean said "    Butterflymbca said "Comparing 2015 to 1980 is pointless. We are where we are, we cannot go back so what's the point of arguing over 30 years that we cannot change.     Since Jellybean wants to discuss economic theory and I have actually studied economics at the University Level, I will say that the one thing almost all economists agree on is that raising minimum wage increases inflation and unemployment.     Raising minimum wage is not something governments do to boost the economy, it is a political maneuver not an economic one.     The fact remains that regardless of whether minimum wage is $5 or $50, a minimum wage job will earn you a minimum wage lifestyle because everything else will adjust.     You don't want a minimum wage lifestyle? It is up to you to increase your earning potential. " Economics is a large part of my university degree. So you are not the only one with this education.     Raising minimum wage may in fact be the wrong move as you say, but there is economic impact, it is not just some political maneuver as you say.     What is even more of a problem is the continual rise of the wages of high income earners. Every time teachers and professors, and government official and nurses, etc. DEMAND major pay increases it widens that gap more and more between the rich and the poor. These people are the ones dictating what minimum wage lifestyle will be like. Not every industry allows foot stomping temper tantrum strikes every time someone wants a raise. If a bunch of clothing sales clerks said they'd strike if they didn't get their raise, their employer would get rid of them.     It is greed that drives our economy these days, and I don't see how that can be disputed. It is the rich that make the decision on what minimum wage lifestyle will look like. It is just a fact that it takes a lot more to get started in life than even 10 years ago. You keep arguing about people living beyond their means, and that home ownership is a privilege, not a right, etc. That isn't the point here. The point here is that it takes more to get less these days, and there isn't a simple fix. Raising minimum wage won't help, hell maybe greedy people demanding outrageous raises (which in turn effect property taxes, etc.), need to stop and just sit on their same wage for a few years to let thing try and even out a bit. We all know that wont happen though.     Lastly, to whichever poster it was that said that having children is a privilege and not a right....where the heck did you come up with that. This is a personal choice, it is neither a privilege or a right. It will be a sad day if people can't have children because the economy has dictated that choice.   "

I hate to say it but raising min. wage without having the personal exemption going up proportionally does absolutely squat! We should of learned this with our NDP government by now.  
 
If you are renting, you are at the mercy of the landlord and the Residential Tenancy Board raising the rent. As some including myself know first hand, The Residential Tenancy Board are very slow in dealing with landlords who want to raise the rent above the guidelines using the 'renovation clause'. I am dealing with a '30% propose rent increase' which should of been ruled on back in July!!!! While I make more then min. wage and work very hard 40 hours a week, it has made things a lot harder to comfortably get by. Does one really think that my work place is going to give me a 30% raise for consistently working my tail off and then some day in and day out? Good luck with that and in some ways, rightfully so.  
 
So what is an affordable wage and living in Brandon? I have no idea but it sure isn't making min. wage and having to pay over a 1/3 of your pay cheque to put a roof over your head!  

Actually there is a simple fix if you want to give low income earners more buying power - as was said above, raise the personal income tax exemption.  
 
Right now, the personal income tax exemption is $9,134 I believe. So a minimum wage earner pays tax on ~$11,000. In Saskatchewan it is $15,369, and in Alberta it is $18,214. So minimum wage earners get $6235 more tax free in Saskatchewan and $9080 in Alberta before they start to pay tax.  
 
But yes, keep raising minimum wage which helps no one and hurts everyone.

In 2000 you could buy a solid 4 bedroom bi-level for $85k. Now that same house is $240k.  
 
My earnings haven't gone up 2.8 times in 15 years.

-learn to determine the difference between a NEED and a WANT. that is the biggest and most important thing to do.  
 
-don't spend money that you don't have. if you don't have it now, where are you going to get it to cover the credit cards or payroll loans?  
 
-stop thinking you're 'too good' to work over time or get a second job. it's not true!  
 
-keep all of your receipts and pay attention to where EVERY PENNY of your money goes. pay special attention to the wasted money and eliminate those habits.  
 
everyone wants to have control over their own lives, even getting pissed off at people who offer them advice. as soon as it comes to money though, it just becomes a gong show of finger-pointing and blame-placing. get control of yourself and tow the line for your choices.  
 

Jellybean said "    Nordberg said "Now I understand why this topic becomes so impossible to discuss... people do not realize how far out their numbers are.     The median home price for Brandon did not hit $100,000 until 2003. When I saw people batting around that number for 1980 I almost fell off my chair.     http://creastats.crea.ca/brnd/mls/images/mls05_chart01_median_single_detached_hi-res.png " I was using the number $100,000 not as a median price in the 80's, but a price that got you a brand new very fancy home. A comparable number today for a brand new basic home is quadruple that.     Maybe not the best comparison, as it totally derailed this conversation in to one of entitlement and living beyond your means. Not everyone can afford s brand new home, but the numbers were just for example.     "

part of the problem with the way you are looking at things is that the numbers you are using and the description of very fancy or basic is all YOUR perception! stats and median house prices take away our perceptions and make it easier to actually analyze the data  
 
if you actually look up some numbers then you will notice that the 80's was very different then you are remembering or thinking they were, in the 80's many many people lost their homes and the interest rate didnt fall below 10% for over a decade, even my first mortgage was going to be 7% in 99 and honestly that is why the houses have climbed, is because you can afford more of a house with the low rates yet your payments are the same as that cheaper house in your imagination  
 
unbreakable1- the reason you are experiencing a 30% increase is because of the RTB, when rent controls dont allow for normal rent increases after years the landlord gets so far behind in their rents that they have to apply for huge increases, especially if they have to do major renos to keep the place up or just bought the place at todays prices yet the suits are registered as rents that havent changed since it was built

We have only lived here for two years and we find Brandon very expensive for a small city with limited over priced housing and very limited shopping. Even smaller cites have Sears, chapters and more clothing stores. We have lived in other provinces and Brandon is by far more the most expensive.

unbreakable1 said "    Jellybean said "    Butterflymbca said "Comparing 2015 to 1980 is pointless. We are where we are, we cannot go back so what's the point of arguing over 30 years that we cannot change.     Since Jellybean wants to discuss economic theory and I have actually studied economics at the University Level, I will say that the one thing almost all economists agree on is that raising minimum wage increases inflation and unemployment.     Raising minimum wage is not something governments do to boost the economy, it is a political maneuver not an economic one.     The fact remains that regardless of whether minimum wage is $5 or $50, a minimum wage job will earn you a minimum wage lifestyle because everything else will adjust.     You don't want a minimum wage lifestyle? It is up to you to increase your earning potential. " Economics is a large part of my university degree. So you are not the only one with this education.     Raising minimum wage may in fact be the wrong move as you say, but there is economic impact, it is not just some political maneuver as you say.     What is even more of a problem is the continual rise of the wages of high income earners. Every time teachers and professors, and government official and nurses, etc. DEMAND major pay increases it widens that gap more and more between the rich and the poor. These people are the ones dictating what minimum wage lifestyle will be like. Not every industry allows foot stomping temper tantrum strikes every time someone wants a raise. If a bunch of clothing sales clerks said they'd strike if they didn't get their raise, their employer would get rid of them.     It is greed that drives our economy these days, and I don't see how that can be disputed. It is the rich that make the decision on what minimum wage lifestyle will look like. It is just a fact that it takes a lot more to get started in life than even 10 years ago. You keep arguing about people living beyond their means, and that home ownership is a privilege, not a right, etc. That isn't the point here. The point here is that it takes more to get less these days, and there isn't a simple fix. Raising minimum wage won't help, hell maybe greedy people demanding outrageous raises (which in turn effect property taxes, etc.), need to stop and just sit on their same wage for a few years to let thing try and even out a bit. We all know that wont happen though.     Lastly, to whichever poster it was that said that having children is a privilege and not a right....where the heck did you come up with that. This is a personal choice, it is neither a privilege or a right. It will be a sad day if people can't have children because the economy has dictated that choice.   " I hate to say it but raising min. wage without having the personal exemption going up proportionally does absolutely squat! We should of learned this with our NDP government by now.     If you are renting, you are at the mercy of the landlord and the Residential Tenancy Board raising the rent. As some including myself know first hand, The Residential Tenancy Board are very slow in dealing with landlords who want to raise the rent above the guidelines using the 'renovation clause'. I am dealing with a '30% propose rent increase' which should of been ruled on back in July!!!! While I make more then min. wage and work very hard 40 hours a week, it has made things a lot harder to comfortably get by. Does one really think that my work place is going to give me a 30% raise for consistently working my tail off and then some day in and day out? Good luck with that and in some ways, rightfully so.     So what is an affordable wage and living in Brandon? I have no idea but it sure isn't making min. wage and having to pay over a 1/3 of your pay cheque to put a roof over your head!   "

Well...you better get yourself a cheaper place to live, or find another job, work harder, better yourself, because now you are living beyond your means according to some people posting here. (Note the sarcasm)  
 
How did this thread become about budgeting, and telling people how to live their lives? That's not what this is about, it's about wages compared to cost of living. Obviously those that are "telling" people how to budget and live are the same ones who do not have to experience this lifestyle. I'd like to see what your attitude would be like if you had to give up your home or whatever else you have because you could no longer afford it based on the decisions of others.

There has been mention of increasing the personal exemption as a way to put more money into lower income people's pockets and reference has been made about Albera and Saskatchewan, but one has to wonder the costs for those provinces. It would be interesting to see the percent of population that receives that benefit. With both of those provinces experiencing revenue from the oil industry are sort of viable on two fronts, one being that the monies are available from the industry as well as spinoff industries, and number two is with a booming economy less people far into the lower income levels, what will be interesting to watch in the future is whether this will continue with the collapse of the resource sector.  
 
It is an interesting idea but the monies needed to run any province have to come from somewhere, I thought that I heard that Alberta was thinking of a sales tax, which would affect all people.

I would suggest it is not your employers job to compensate you to support your cost of living. There responsibility is to compensate you for the work you do on at the agreed upon rate that you agreed on when you sere hired. The job is worth x dollars to the employer. If you take on more responsibility or ask to be paid for the same job and they agree then that is what you are worth to them in that job. If they will not pay you for what you feel is reasonable the you have a "choice" .  
 
They do not control what you do outside of work and how you conduct your money management nor should it. They may be able to help you or guide you in some cases.  
 
As was mentioned by another poster if the rent increases were based on market value and not controlled by residential tenancy then they would be even hire for some homes people have been in for 5 to 10 years .  
 
Would suggest taking responsibility and control of your situation (or life) will take you a lot farther then taking a victim stance on what someone has done to you.

Oh Canada said "I would suggest it is not your employers job to compensate you to support your cost of living. There responsibility is to compensate you for the work you do on at the agreed upon rate that you agreed on when you sere hired. The job is worth x dollars to the employer. If you take on more responsibility or ask to be paid for the same job and they agree then that is what you are worth to them in that job. If they will not pay you for what you feel is reasonable the you have a "choice" .     They do not control what you do outside of work and how you conduct your money management nor should it. They may be able to help you or guide you in some cases.     As was mentioned by another poster if the rent increases were based on market value and not controlled by residential tenancy then they would be even hire for some homes people have been in for 5 to 10 years .     Would suggest taking responsibility and control of your situation (or life) will take you a lot farther then taking a victim stance on what someone has done to you. "

Exactly....so then government employees, teachers, nurses, etc. can't strike or demand ridiculous wage increases when the job they are doing is not changing enough from year to year to support that much of an increase.  
 
It has nothing to do with being your employers responsibility to support your lifestyle. You choose your job, your lifestyle, etc., but there are always those out there that demand more and spoil it for the rest.  
 
Brandon is a great place to live and raise a family, but there have been some unfortunate city management, school division, etc. decisions that aren't really supported with our small population.

Jellybean said "    unbreakable1 said "    Jellybean said "    Butterflymbca said "Comparing 2015 to 1980 is pointless. We are where we are, we cannot go back so what's the point of arguing over 30 years that we cannot change.     Since Jellybean wants to discuss economic theory and I have actually studied economics at the University Level, I will say that the one thing almost all economists agree on is that raising minimum wage increases inflation and unemployment.     Raising minimum wage is not something governments do to boost the economy, it is a political maneuver not an economic one.     The fact remains that regardless of whether minimum wage is $5 or $50, a minimum wage job will earn you a minimum wage lifestyle because everything else will adjust.     You don't want a minimum wage lifestyle? It is up to you to increase your earning potential. " Economics is a large part of my university degree. So you are not the only one with this education.     Raising minimum wage may in fact be the wrong move as you say, but there is economic impact, it is not just some political maneuver as you say.     What is even more of a problem is the continual rise of the wages of high income earners. Every time teachers and professors, and government official and nurses, etc. DEMAND major pay increases it widens that gap more and more between the rich and the poor. These people are the ones dictating what minimum wage lifestyle will be like. Not every industry allows foot stomping temper tantrum strikes every time someone wants a raise. If a bunch of clothing sales clerks said they'd strike if they didn't get their raise, their employer would get rid of them.     It is greed that drives our economy these days, and I don't see how that can be disputed. It is the rich that make the decision on what minimum wage lifestyle will look like. It is just a fact that it takes a lot more to get started in life than even 10 years ago. You keep arguing about people living beyond their means, and that home ownership is a privilege, not a right, etc. That isn't the point here. The point here is that it takes more to get less these days, and there isn't a simple fix. Raising minimum wage won't help, hell maybe greedy people demanding outrageous raises (which in turn effect property taxes, etc.), need to stop and just sit on their same wage for a few years to let thing try and even out a bit. We all know that wont happen though.     Lastly, to whichever poster it was that said that having children is a privilege and not a right....where the heck did you come up with that. This is a personal choice, it is neither a privilege or a right. It will be a sad day if people can't have children because the economy has dictated that choice.   " I hate to say it but raising min. wage without having the personal exemption going up proportionally does absolutely squat! We should of learned this with our NDP government by now.     If you are renting, you are at the mercy of the landlord and the Residential Tenancy Board raising the rent. As some including myself know first hand, The Residential Tenancy Board are very slow in dealing with landlords who want to raise the rent above the guidelines using the 'renovation clause'. I am dealing with a '30% propose rent increase' which should of been ruled on back in July!!!! While I make more then min. wage and work very hard 40 hours a week, it has made things a lot harder to comfortably get by. Does one really think that my work place is going to give me a 30% raise for consistently working my tail off and then some day in and day out? Good luck with that and in some ways, rightfully so.     So what is an affordable wage and living in Brandon? I have no idea but it sure isn't making min. wage and having to pay over a 1/3 of your pay cheque to put a roof over your head!   " Well...you better get yourself a cheaper place to live, or find another job, work harder, better yourself, because now you are living beyond your means according to some people posting here. (Note the sarcasm)     How did this thread become about budgeting, and telling people how to live their lives? That's not what this is about, it's about wages compared to cost of living. Obviously those that are "telling" people how to budget and live are the same ones who do not have to experience this lifestyle. I'd like to see what your attitude would be like if you had to give up your home or whatever else you have because you could no longer afford it based on the decisions of others. "

When you start a discussion about comparing wages and the cost of living, and suggesting that things are out of balance, it's pretty much a no-brainer that budgeting will come into play. It's also a bit of a stretch to suggest those talking about budgeting haven't had that experience.  
 
I'm one of those that were fortunate enough to see the mortgage rate go from 10.5% to 21% and keep my house. A very large lifestyle change was needed, which included taking on extra work to help pay for things. Rates of pay didn't change much during those years. Certainly not enough to offset higher payments. Those were tough years and I knew people that lost their homes. More often though, people did what they had to to keep their homes.  
 
In retrospect, those tough years probably gave me the insight to help out in tough times ahead, and I'm not really sorry I went through those times.  
 
The folks that are telling you you need to budget and maybe find a way to earn more are giving you the best advice possible. Making your own way in this world can be tough, but waiting for someone else to ease the road you are on is liable to be so much tougher. The sooner you get your head around that idea, the sooner you will start to get out from under.  
 
Good luck.

fargobob said "    Jellybean said "    unbreakable1 said "    Jellybean said "    Butterflymbca said "Comparing 2015 to 1980 is pointless. We are where we are, we cannot go back so what's the point of arguing over 30 years that we cannot change.     Since Jellybean wants to discuss economic theory and I have actually studied economics at the University Level, I will say that the one thing almost all economists agree on is that raising minimum wage increases inflation and unemployment.     Raising minimum wage is not something governments do to boost the economy, it is a political maneuver not an economic one.     The fact remains that regardless of whether minimum wage is $5 or $50, a minimum wage job will earn you a minimum wage lifestyle because everything else will adjust.     You don't want a minimum wage lifestyle? It is up to you to increase your earning potential. " Economics is a large part of my university degree. So you are not the only one with this education.     Raising minimum wage may in fact be the wrong move as you say, but there is economic impact, it is not just some political maneuver as you say.     What is even more of a problem is the continual rise of the wages of high income earners. Every time teachers and professors, and government official and nurses, etc. DEMAND major pay increases it widens that gap more and more between the rich and the poor. These people are the ones dictating what minimum wage lifestyle will be like. Not every industry allows foot stomping temper tantrum strikes every time someone wants a raise. If a bunch of clothing sales clerks said they'd strike if they didn't get their raise, their employer would get rid of them.     It is greed that drives our economy these days, and I don't see how that can be disputed. It is the rich that make the decision on what minimum wage lifestyle will look like. It is just a fact that it takes a lot more to get started in life than even 10 years ago. You keep arguing about people living beyond their means, and that home ownership is a privilege, not a right, etc. That isn't the point here. The point here is that it takes more to get less these days, and there isn't a simple fix. Raising minimum wage won't help, hell maybe greedy people demanding outrageous raises (which in turn effect property taxes, etc.), need to stop and just sit on their same wage for a few years to let thing try and even out a bit. We all know that wont happen though.     Lastly, to whichever poster it was that said that having children is a privilege and not a right....where the heck did you come up with that. This is a personal choice, it is neither a privilege or a right. It will be a sad day if people can't have children because the economy has dictated that choice.   " I hate to say it but raising min. wage without having the personal exemption going up proportionally does absolutely squat! We should of learned this with our NDP government by now.     If you are renting, you are at the mercy of the landlord and the Residential Tenancy Board raising the rent. As some including myself know first hand, The Residential Tenancy Board are very slow in dealing with landlords who want to raise the rent above the guidelines using the 'renovation clause'. I am dealing with a '30% propose rent increase' which should of been ruled on back in July!!!! While I make more then min. wage and work very hard 40 hours a week, it has made things a lot harder to comfortably get by. Does one really think that my work place is going to give me a 30% raise for consistently working my tail off and then some day in and day out? Good luck with that and in some ways, rightfully so.     So what is an affordable wage and living in Brandon? I have no idea but it sure isn't making min. wage and having to pay over a 1/3 of your pay cheque to put a roof over your head!   " Well...you better get yourself a cheaper place to live, or find another job, work harder, better yourself, because now you are living beyond your means according to some people posting here. (Note the sarcasm)     How did this thread become about budgeting, and telling people how to live their lives? That's not what this is about, it's about wages compared to cost of living. Obviously those that are "telling" people how to budget and live are the same ones who do not have to experience this lifestyle. I'd like to see what your attitude would be like if you had to give up your home or whatever else you have because you could no longer afford it based on the decisions of others. " When you start a discussion about comparing wages and the cost of living, and suggesting that things are out of balance, it's pretty much a no-brainer that budgeting will come into play. It's also a bit of a stretch to suggest those talking about budgeting haven't had that experience.     I'm one of those that were fortunate enough to see the mortgage rate go from 10.5% to 21% and keep my house. A very large lifestyle change was needed, which included taking on extra work to help pay for things. Rates of pay didn't change much during those years. Certainly not enough to offset higher payments. Those were tough years and I knew people that lost their homes. More often though, people did what they had to to keep their homes.     In retrospect, those tough years probably gave me the insight to help out in tough times ahead, and I'm not really sorry I went through those times.     The folks that are telling you you need to budget and maybe find a way to earn more are giving you the best advice possible. Making your own way in this world can be tough, but waiting for someone else to ease the road you are on is liable to be so much tougher. The sooner you get your head around that idea, the sooner you will start to get out from under.     Good luck. "

Thanks for the advice, but neither myself nor my husband are minimum wage earners. We live what most people would probably deem a "comfortable" lifestyle. We have seen struggle and privilege in our years together. We know what it is like to have to give up a home, and I know what it is like to have to give up a career for something that pays less so that I could accommodate the needs of our family.  
 
I think this thread has become too much about some people "telling" lower income people how they are to live their lives instead of sticking to the topic at hand, which is comparing cost of living to wages. I'm not sure why some are so focused on the fact that minimum wage earners couldn't purchase a home then or now. Obviously, that is just a fact...but we aren't talking specifically about minimum wage here, we are talking about average wages here in Brandon as compared to what the cost of living has become over the years. I myself am thankful that I got started out in my adult years when our wages could get us more. I was able to purchase a home right away. I couldn't imagine what my life would be like if I was just starting out now. It would be a lot different, that's for sure.

You indicated that economics is a large part of your university degree, so backing up your claims with facts should be no trouble for you.  
 
You have posted a couple of items where you made reference to nurses and teachers going on strike to demand higher wages.  
 
I have a question for you: when was the last time that each group (nurses and teachers) went on strike in Manitoba to support their demands for higher wages ?  
 
You also suggested, regarding nurses, teachers and others that "These people are the ones dictating what minimum wage lifestyle will be like".  
 

standard standard h8r said "You indicated that economics is a large part of your university degree, so backing up your claims with facts should be no trouble for you.     You have posted a couple of items where you made reference to nurses and teachers going on strike to demand higher wages.     I have a question for you: when was the last time that each group (nurses and teachers) went on strike in Manitoba to support their demands for higher wages ?     You also suggested, regarding nurses, teachers and others that "These people are the ones dictating what minimum wage lifestyle will be like".     "

I believe it was 2011 that there was a strike at the university that lasted close to two months if I remember correctly. All this so professors can have more money, which in turn increases tuition, which in turn prices certain people out of a university education, which in turn dictates what kind of job you will be able to get, which in turn dictates your earning potential, and therefore your lifestyle.  
 
The last health care worker strike I recall was in 2009 here in Brandon I believe. These people are allowed to stomp their feet when they want more money. Not every industry works like that.  
 
The school division has threatened many strikes, but I can't recall the last threat, or actual strike. I believe another MB school division was on strike in 2005ish?? And obviously across the country there have been school division strikes. I think it was just last fall in Vancouver the kids were out 2 or 3 weeks of school because of a strike.  
 
And of course not all threats lead to strikes, but there sure are a lot of threats.  
 
These employment areas are just examples to back up my point about how certain industries (mostly higher earning ones) can have a real impact on how people are able to live.  
 
We do not all have jobs where we can stomp our feet and complain every time we want more money. Whether people want to see it or not, the choices of others directly affect peoples lives, and it is not just as simple as people put it, to go out and get a new higher paying job just because your property taxes went up, or the cost of food went up, or to go back to school (which some people simply cannot afford) so you can better your life. I'm not arguing about choice of lifestyle here. I'm just pointing out that it is much more difficult to afford certain things now, then even 10 years ago. If your starting wage was 20/h in 2005, and you could buy a $100,000 home and still afford all of your bills, food, etc. that was great. In 2015 that same home may be triple the value, property taxes are more, food is more, etc., but I guarantee your the starting wage at your same job is not triple in just 10 years.  
 
These are all just examples people of how the cost of living has risen at a way higher rate than wages. Not trying to fix it, just pointing that out, and pointing out the fact that it often isn't the minimum wage earners that are complaining about it, it's the higher income earners that just keep demanding more and more to support a lifestyle they have become accustomed to.

It is very obvious that you are jealous and resentful of people that chose careers that provide a better wage than you make: you comments regarding "foot stomping" make that very clear. I assume you will continue with your argument that, no, you are not jealous, but that others with more money are just greedy and are ruining life for others. I feel it is only fair that you be aware that your true colors are showing quite clearly within your very mature insults thrown at some of the hardest working people within our society. I am sorry your BA degree isn't paying off like you feel it should but that really isn't anyone's fault but yours. This is a capitalistic country: you want the same as your neighbour has regardless of profession? China may take you in if you ask nicely. Also, can you please provide evidence of this nursing strike you are so upset about? I don't recall a nursing strike in 2009.  
 
 
 
 
Unrelated, why does the semicolon show up as a colon?  
 
 
Edited by itsalwaysunny, 2015-08-24 11:44:34

You might be making things up now.  
Manitoba teachers cannot go on strike and haven't had the option since 1956ish.

You made my exact point.  
 
When Jellybean says "The school division has threatened many strikes, but I can't recall the last threat, or actual strike. I believe another MB school division was on strike in 2005ish??", she is clearly just making things up. I doubt that was what she was taught in her economics class.  
 
There has not been a strike by public school teachers in Manitoba for over half a century. And why would the school division, the employer, have threatened many strikes ?  
 
Jellybean, please provide evidence of a recent nurses strike in Brandon.  
 
To blame these two groups of dedicated employees for dictating what minimum wage lifestyle would be like, and doing so by having "foot stomping temper tantrum strikes every time someone wants a raise" is unfair.  
 
No matter how many nurses and teachers live in  
Brandon, it is not these two groups who establish Brandon wages and cost of living.  
 
 

itsalwaysunny said "It is very obvious that you are jealous and resentful of people that chose careers that provide a better wage than you make: you comments regarding "foot stomping" make that very clear. I assume you will continue with your argument that, no, you are not jealous, but that others with more money are just greedy and are ruining life for others. I feel it is only fair that you be aware that your true colors are showing quite clearly within your very mature insults thrown at some of the hardest working people within our society. I am sorry your BA degree isn't paying off like you feel it should but that really isn't anyone's fault but yours. This is a capitalistic country: you want the same as your neighbour has regardless of profession? China may take you in if you ask nicely. Also, can you please provide evidence of this nursing strike you are so upset about? I don't recall a nursing strike in 2009.           Unrelated, why does the semicolon show up as a colon?       Edited by itsalwaysunny, 2015-08-24 11:44:34"

Again, this has nothing to do with my lifestyle. I have a bachelors, a partial law degree and then moved on to a masters in my current field. It is my choice to not use these right now, as I have made my choice to put my family first. We live a lifestyle far far below what we could, but that is not something I care about. I have a disabled child that needs my time right now to better her future. Like I said, I'm just thankful my adult life began when less got you more, because we would not be able to give our children, especially our disabled child the opportunities we do if we had just started out now.  
 
I didn't say it was a nursing strike in 2009, I said it was a healthcare worker strike.

Oh goodness....people use examples when making points. I have in no way pinpointed one or two sectors as at fault. I have used these as examples.  
 
Oh and pardon my mistake....TEACHERS may have given up their right to strike in the 50s in MB, but other school division staff did not.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think people in this discussion are using the term "rich" differently.  
 
Last I checked nurses, teachers, most government workers are not rich by any means. They are what is considered by most middle class.  
 
I may not be educated in economics like some posters but is not having a strong middle class, with disposable income good for the economy? I don't know how this became about said professions making too much money.  
 
I work in the public utility sector and my last contract negotiation was i believe something to the effect of 4% or 4.5% over 4 years. That's not what I would call huge.

is a university strike different than regular teachers....not to add to the arguement but back when I was in university 10 or so years ago, we came very close to loosing a term due to a strike. On a positive note, it did not happen. On the rest of this thread....ive got nothing to add. lol  
 
Edited by Jaxon, 2015-08-24 13:10:39

Torque said "Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think people in this discussion are using the term "rich" differently.     Last I checked nurses, teachers, most government workers are not rich by any means. They are what is considered by most middle class.     I may not be educated in economics like some posters but is not having a strong middle class, with disposable income good for the economy? I don't know how this became about said professions making too much money.     I work in the public utility sector and my last contract negotiation was i believe something to the effect of 4% or 4.5% over 4 years. That's not what I would call huge. "

No, that really isn't much, and a majority of jobs here in Brandon don't even see that much....but teachers will be getting 9% over that same time frame.  

What it always comes down to is this old saying,  
 
"If you want what others have, be prepared to do what others do."  
 
If you are an 'average earner' as Jelly bean said and cannot afford housing where you live you have 2 choices:  
 
1 - Move to somewhere you can afford  
 
2 - Increase your earnings  
 
I am really not sure what else there is to say. Complaining that others can have more because of the type of job they have is never going to change your situation, only 'you' can change 'you'.  
 
 
 
 
 
Edited by Butterflymbca, 2015-08-24 13:45:25

Butterflymbca said "What it always comes down to is this old saying,     "If you want what others have, be prepared to do what others do."     If you are an 'average earner' as Jelly bean said and cannot afford housing where you live you have 2 choices:     1 - Move to somewhere you can afford     2 - Increase your earnings     I am really not sure what else there is to say. Complaining that others can have more because of the type of job they have is never going to change your situation, only 'you' can change 'you'.             Edited by Butterflymbca, 2015-08-24 13:45:25"

If only life were that simple....  
 
People don't just up and move every time the cost of living goes up. People go in to debt, and some complain about their situations, some get a second job, and some are able to demand raises. We all have different situations and deal with things based on our own lives, but it's not just as simple as getting a new job and moving to a new city because you can't afford something.  
 
Moving or increasing your earnings will in no way make it untrue that wages are rising way slower than the cost of living.

Jellybean Maybe you need to give some suggestions on how to fix the problem!  
 
The issues of cost of living out passing min wage is a first world problem as our way of life is out passing our income. A huge amount of the world would love to have the problems we have.  
 
You continually say it is not that easy. Everyone makes choices and lives with the outcome of those choices. You have made choices for what you feel is best for you and your family. That is great. The choices we make to create income to offset our expenses is our choice.  
 
a $20 min wage would cause everything to go up to offset the cost of starting labour and would effect the minimum wager earners the most.  
 
I would suggest that a person either has a expense problem or a earning problem or both. It is up to everyone to be the CEO of their life. Blaming society, government and your situation will not change anything until you figure out how to manage your life.

Oh Canada said "Jellybean Maybe you need to give some suggestions on how to fix the problem!     The issues of cost of living out passing min wage is a first world problem as our way of life is out passing our income. A huge amount of the world would love to have the problems we have.     You continually say it is not that easy. Everyone makes choices and lives with the outcome of those choices. You have made choices for what you feel is best for you and your family. That is great. The choices we make to create income to offset our expenses is our choice.     a $20 min wage would cause everything to go up to offset the cost of starting labour and would effect the minimum wager earners the most.     I would suggest that a person either has a expense problem or a earning problem or both. It is up to everyone to be the CEO of their life. Blaming society, government and your situation will not change anything until you figure out how to manage your life. "

who is blaming society? This is a discussion on wages vs. cost of living. There are no simple fixes. I don't blame anyone for my lifestyle. I do however see why people today are complaining and having to work harder for things. It is a first world problem, but it's still a problem.  
 
Housing prices over doubled between 2005-2010 in Brandon. That's a problem. It's a problem for people who can't afford to purchase a house then, and it's a problem for that same person who can't find a place to rent because vacancy rate is so low because there are too many people who can't afford to purchase so they have to rent. Then you have someone like butterfly telling that person that they should just move elsewhere or go find a higher paying job. It's just not that simple.  
 
Property tax increases alone have even made it difficult to afford a home. These problems come from decreased government funding in area's like school division costs, and therefore the money has to come from raising property taxes instead. Again, it's a first world problem, but it's still a problem when our education system is being short changed by the government.  
 
So I don't know...you want suggestions to fix the problems? Government spending has to change, put things like education on higher priority (not that simple apparently). Make more low income housing and rental units available (not that simple, because the cost of materials to provide such places is too high).  
Maybe interest rates need to creep up a bit to put a freeze on house prices and lending. To dangerous of a move as that could hit our economy hard.  
 
Cost of living has been getting out of control too fast, and it'll take a lot to try and even that out. So, no, there are no simple fixes to our first world problems, but they are still problems.