Discussions

this is a disturbing letter. but the finger pointing needs to be directed at the school boards. they are responsible for both the curriculum and budgets, including wage negotiations. you would have to label them as incompetent, particularly bsd. there needs to be a new model to improve student grades and deal with the diverse student population. some students do need to fail. imo

why would any person or even union for that matter negotiate lower wages? If there is blame to lay here blame it on the people who agree to pay these ridiculous wages, and then set them up with a poor educational plan.

I was just looking at our child's school calendar. There are 185 days of instruction this year. It varies from 14 days-21 days per month. Every month there is a day off school, if it's not a Professional Development day it's an Administration Day, which brings down the time kids are actually in school, not to mention Spring break, and Christmas break. I know a family who are struggling to have an EA for their child and "it's not in the budget"  
 
 
Edited by fuzzy slippers, 2015-09-10 11:52:00

...as system of mediocrity adopted by the school board. Much like the "No student left behind" in the US.  
 
First, I will say I didn't read the whole article.  
 
The problem, as I see it, isn't teachers wages (and I believe as unionized employees they should have the right to negotiate better pay and benefits) but class sizes and a curriculum that stresses student throughput numbers over the quality of the education.  
 
I have had my daughters come home from high school saying that the tests they had taken that day covered material that wasn't even covered in class. How are kids supposed to excel when the school board expects them to learn that material on their own?  
 
From what I understand, and please correct me, teachers are given essentially a time line for material and subjects. So many days for this objective, so many days for that, etc. How does that play out in the real world? Kids with less ability require more of the teachers time and resources which causes kids with higher ability to become bored and dissatisfied. The kids in the middle learn pretty quickly that they only need to do the minimum because no one is there to push them any harder.  
 
Reducing teachers wages even to a level that would be the national average is no guarantee of success. Getting teachers the resources needed to properly engage the students on a personal level and placing the emphasis on the quality of the education is the only way to increase our scores.  
 
Unfortunately, having an elected school board essentially guarantees that their only real concern will be getting re-elected. Don't get me wrong, I think some are trying to do good work but long term thinking goes out the window as any success will be claimed by those in the future and failures blamed on their predecessors.  
 
I have no problem with paying the taxes set out but if the money is spent on a system that has been shown to be a loser repeatedly, then maybe we need to change the system and quit blaming the teachers for something that is out of their control.  
 
Gord Weflen  
 
Edited by Marpet, 2015-09-10 12:09:31

chrisanddave said "this is a disturbing letter. but the finger pointing needs to be directed at the school boards. they are responsible for both the curriculum and budgets, including wage negotiations. you would have to label them as incompetent, particularly bsd. there needs to be a new model to improve student grades and deal with the diverse student population. some students do need to fail. imo "

I am pretty sure that it is the provincial government, not the school board, that sets the curriculum.

a # of things need to change,  
1) Parents need to start taking more responsibility in their child's education. If your child is struggling teachers only can do so much. You as a parent need to step up  
2) Province needs to rethink their curriculum.  
3) Entrance requirements for acceptance to ED @ university needs to be hard. I understand its 6 yrs of university but come on taking a badminton class to get your degree before ED is a joke.  
 
Everyone can complain all they want about what teachers get paid and can complain about the holidays they get but what a lot of people don't see is the extra hours that teachers NEED to put in before and after school. Lots of teachers need to use their own $ to buy certain supplies for the classroom etc. and lastly they need to put up with the BS from parents.  
 
 
 
Edited by Muppet, 2015-09-10 12:46:10

Muppet....I agree with your list...  
 
To add to your list...  
1)There needs to be more of a priority on education, not all these extra's. When I was a kid, if we got 1 field trip per year, that was great. Last year, our oldest had 4 field trips. 2 of which had some educational value, and the other 2 were totally pointless in my opinion.  
There is a need for these "social" activities as well to teach kids certain things, but most of these social parts of learning could be done at home with family and friends. So many families do not take time with their kids to do these extra's, so it seems as if the school is stepping in to cover this as well. Parents seem to not have the time to work on their kids education with them either because they are to busy working at their jobs to make enough money to cover our ridiculous property taxes that get hiked up every year by the school division in part.  
2) I'm sorry teachers, you are fabulous, and I have appreciated all of my kids teachers so far, but really, why so many pay increases? Give it a rest. You make lots of money, the school boards need a break in this area so that they can budget for more important things to better our kids education.  
 

Why do agencies and the people that they serve think they need to re-invent the system? There is a wonderful concept in Finland that is having great results, but when I mention it, I am told to move to Finland (or the German plan of trades start in grade nine gets a "move to Germany" response). Instead, we follow an American based flawed system and refuse to change.  
 
Some concepts to consider from Finland:  
 
Start at age eight when a child is able and willing to learn. Prior to that, the play incorporates letters and numbers but there are no lessons, homework, studying, or tests. Google Montessori method for more information.  
 
When the student does start, the class has less than twenty students and they stay with the same teacher for three to four years. If a student has a different learning style (that can take a couple or three months to diagnose), the teacher changes their style of teaching that student for the next two and a half years. In Brandon, the student is passed on to another teacher who has to go through the same process, often losing up to half the school year because the new teacher does not immediately understand the problem. This is again repeated with a third teacher, leaving the student a year or more behind the other students because every new teacher had to do their own diagnosis and modifications to accommodate the different learning style.  
 
No tests .... until university entrance exams in grade 12. All assessments are done by the teacher who will write out what the student has achieved and what they need to work on. They are passed to the next teacher only when they have achieved the learning objectives. With three years to work with, even if the student shows up not knowing how to read or count, the primary teacher can modify their lesson plans to accommodate this deficiency and deal with it. There is no competition as to who will get the higher grade because there are no grades. It becomes a group effort to get everyone able to understand what is being taught.  
 
There is no homework .... again, maybe a little when preparing for grade twelve exams. Supervising the completion of course material is best done with a qualified supervisor and parents are qualified in other areas. Teaching the parents to teach their sons and daughters does not add up. The student may read an extra book or practise what they learned in school, but it is not required or encouraged.  
 
Teachers are treated as professionals. The lawyer, doctor, mechanic, welder, all get a mentor as they intern for the first few years after they graduate from the institution that they attended. The same is for teachers. They have someone they can talk to about problems. This mentor will drop in and watch, offering constructive criticism if required. The first few times that the evaluations are written out, the mentor will oversee the process and make sure the proper information is included. Do you change dentists every year? Why would you change teachers then? There is a professional relationship between the teacher, student, and family. Only when the student's needs change does the professional pass the client onto someone more qualified in that area.  
 
Paid Sabbatical Leave after seven (?) years. The teacher is encouraged to take a course either in their field or in something completely different. One teacher went for a French Cuisine cooking course in the Alsac region whereas another may pursue a masters in their field or a complimentary field of study. They come back renewed rather than burnt out.  
 
These are just a few modifications that may appear to be expensive in the short term, but if it results in retention of better teachers, then it would be a worthwhile investment.  
 
 

Hang in there...personalized learning will fix it all! :D

Muppet said "a # of things need to change,   1) Parents need to start taking more responsibility in their child's education. If your child is struggling teachers only can do so much. You as a parent need to step up   2) Province needs to rethink their curriculum.   3) Entrance requirements for acceptance to ED @ university needs to be hard. I understand its 6 yrs of university but come on taking a badminton class to get your degree before ED is a joke.     Everyone can complain all they want about what teachers get paid and can complain about the holidays they get but what a lot of people don't see is the extra hours that teachers NEED to put in before and after school. Lots of teachers need to use their own $ to buy certain supplies for the classroom etc. and lastly they need to put up with the BS from parents.         Edited by Muppet, 2015-09-10 12:46:10"

I agreed with everything you said until you said about the extra hours? Teachers start at 9 and end at 330 I know those are not the hours they work but those are school hours. Extra hours then still only equate to what non-teachers do every day without the summers,spring break etc etc  
Teachers are awesome.....Most deserve every penny-but that is a different topic!

you get what you pay for sure doesn't apply here...

From what I read in the article, it could be misinterpreted somewhat. Salaries quoted were top salaries in the provinces memtioned. From what knowledge I have of the pay structure, it goes by level of education of the teacher. Highest salary would be a masters degree amd lowest a bachelor of ed? Now, I certainly don't know the numbers but I'm pretty sure the highest percentage of teachers don't have their masters.  
Therefore, keep in mind, most aren't making that high of a wage, and if they are, they've gone to school to earn it. Like alot of the bellyaching on here, if you'd like to make that much too, B.U. has an excellent faculty of education. It'll only take you 6 years of school and the good fortune to get a job afterwards. They earn it, good for them. Walk a mile in a teachers shoes before you judge.

Province needs to get their head out of their ass about education. Fix a clear curriculum and get real text books back in classes. Go back to teaching the basics.  
Math is NOT an expressive exploration of numbers where there are so many ways to find the correct answer the student ends up learning none of the techniques.  
I can't think of how many times my daughter comes home frustrated because they are learning something in science or socials and it is vague, incomplete or sometimes the teacher just admits they don't know the answers or how the process works. A 9 yr old shouldn't have to learn about the process of electricity from Grandpa and have to go back and teach the concept of positive and negative charge, wiring, switches, and grounding to the teacher...because the teacher did not know and did not have a standard resource to teach from.  
Lets face facts...teachers are qualified to teach K-12 all subjects upon certification. This means it is impossible to know everything about everything. That is why historically (and still in most other provinces) text books and teacher's guide books (for each textbook) are still used. So the students can learn and the teacher can brush up on each subject and each lesson. It also opens so many doors for teachers to expand the lesson because they have a solid reference source and clear guide to use as a base.  
Teachers can't teach what they do not know or understand themselves.  
My now 11 yr old is already panicking because according to her " there is no way the math I am learning in school is going to prepare me for trigonometry and calculus."  
Sad to say the 1950's taught better education than now. I know there is a belief that the internet replaces text books and computers will do everything for us. The reality is that translates to artificial intelligence is all that is needed and human intelligence is unnecessary...that must be the real belief because children are not learning the basics needed for formulating concepts and being able to carry it through.  
The worst part is that we will not know how brutally screwed these kids are until they are adults and the education system can no longer help them.  
There are many grade 6 students who claim education is useless and unnecessary. (Thankfully my daughter is not one of them and has her post secondary subjects and schooling already picked out, hence trigonometry and calculus.) Those comments sicken me...yet I cannot totally disagree when I see what is being taught. These kids are going to have to go to college to learn that elementary and high school was supposed to have taught them.  
 
Yes, I have seriously thought about if I should relocate to a province with better education for my daughter's sake.

AndreaD. said "Province needs to get their head out of their ass about education. Fix a clear curriculum and get real text books back in classes. Go back to teaching the basics.   Math is NOT an expressive exploration of numbers where there are so many ways to find the correct answer the student ends up learning none of the techniques.   I can't think of how many times my daughter comes home frustrated because they are learning something in science or socials and it is vague, incomplete or sometimes the teacher just admits they don't know the answers or how the process works. A 9 yr old shouldn't have to learn about the process of electricity from Grandpa and have to go back and teach the concept of positive and negative charge, wiring, switches, and grounding to the teacher...because the teacher did not know and did not have a standard resource to teach from.   Lets face facts...teachers are qualified to teach K-12 all subjects upon certification. This means it is impossible to know everything about everything. That is why historically (and still in most other provinces) text books and teacher's guide books (for each textbook) are still used. So the students can learn and the teacher can brush up on each subject and each lesson. It also opens so many doors for teachers to expand the lesson because they have a solid reference source and clear guide to use as a base.   Teachers can't teach what they do not know or understand themselves.   My now 11 yr old is already panicking because according to her " there is no way the math I am learning in school is going to prepare me for trigonometry and calculus."   Sad to say the 1950's taught better education than now. I know there is a belief that the internet replaces text books and computers will do everything for us. The reality is that translates to artificial intelligence is all that is needed and human intelligence is unnecessary...that must be the real belief because children are not learning the basics needed for formulating concepts and being able to carry it through.   The worst part is that we will not know how brutally screwed these kids are until they are adults and the education system can no longer help them.   There are many grade 6 students who claim education is useless and unnecessary. (Thankfully my daughter is not one of them and has her post secondary subjects and schooling already picked out, hence trigonometry and calculus.) Those comments sicken me...yet I cannot totally disagree when I see what is being taught. These kids are going to have to go to college to learn that elementary and high school was supposed to have taught them.     Yes, I have seriously thought about if I should relocate to a province with better education for my daughter's sake. "

If you don't like the math curriculum you could teach your daughter math as you see fit at home, or hire a tutor. If enough parents across the province demand a change I imagine the Minister of Education would have to listen.

I retired several years ago. Over the course of my tenure I witnessed several approaches to Education as government changed etc. One of the biggest obstacles to education is the "Not my child" approach from parents. Yes some parents do have realistic expectation for their children. Those student could be in a class of 40 and still learn. As a teacher I would have a pile of grading to do but they would do well on standardized tests and on the job after graduation.  
 
Then there are the many who allow their children to not be responsible for their own life. They do not have to remember to even bring their lunch, homework etc. They do not have to attempt to learn because if they are not top of their class it is the teachers fault.  
 
I have heard parents rant at the local rink, coffee shop or where ever. The end result teachers are human and take the easy road and pass students along. These students know they will pass with minimal effort. The bright students are trained not to expend any effort because they will pass anyway. The end result is the rush to the bottom instead of too excel.  
 
Just look at previous education threads on this forum.

Straitup said "    Muppet said "a # of things need to change,   1) Parents need to start taking more responsibility in their child's education. If your child is struggling teachers only can do so much. You as a parent need to step up   2) Province needs to rethink their curriculum.   3) Entrance requirements for acceptance to ED @ university needs to be hard. I understand its 6 yrs of university but come on taking a badminton class to get your degree before ED is a joke.     Everyone can complain all they want about what teachers get paid and can complain about the holidays they get but what a lot of people don't see is the extra hours that teachers NEED to put in before and after school. Lots of teachers need to use their own $ to buy certain supplies for the classroom etc. and lastly they need to put up with the BS from parents.         Edited by Muppet, 2015-09-10 12:46:10" I agreed with everything you said until you said about the extra hours? Teachers start at 9 and end at 330 I know those are not the hours they work but those are school hours. Extra hours then still only equate to what non-teachers do every day without the summers,spring break etc etc   Teachers are awesome.....Most deserve every penny-but that is a different topic! "

https://www.bsd.ca/Division/Careers/Documents/BTA10.pdf  
 
that is a link to the collective agreement, for brandon school division. i didn't notice anything about teachers being REQUIRED to do unusually high amounts of overtime or pay for their own classroom supplies. if i missed something, let me know....  
 
i know in past discussions, the amount of hours a teacher works has come up. the school day is only 6.5 hours long but, many teachers "several hours" of work to do outside of classroom hours. those hours would be on one's own time and how efficiently a person uses their time would directly affect the amount of "extra hours" required. also, classroom time can be used to grade assignments, rather than mingling with other teachers and getting more coffee from the staff room. i had plenty of teachers over my 13 years in school and while raising kids, had the chance to meet a whole other group of them. some are more organized and efficient than others and IT SHOWS!!  
 
in my experience, there are 2 different types of teachers. the kind that truly want to educate and then the kind that just wanted a job where they didn't have to work all year long. when i used to go to parent/teacher interviews, it was never hard to tell the two types apart. just a quick look around the room was often enough.  

"the amount of hours a teacher works has come up. the school day is only 6.5 hours long but, many teachers "several hours" of work to do outside of classroom hours. those hours would be on one's own time and how efficiently a person uses their time would directly affect the amount of "extra hours" required. also, classroom time can be used to grade assignments, rather than mingling with other teachers and getting more coffee from the staff room."  
 
What time do you think work starts for them?  
Try 8am or 830am.  
 
What time do you think work ends for them?  
 
After answering questions, assisting with after-hours parent-wanted after-school programs, after attending the mandatory meetings that go over family meetings, parent arranged meetings, consults with other resources... what time is it then that they are done? Oh! Yes - being available to answer phone calls from parents who need to call them at home to have an answer immediately while they (those damn teachers everyone hates on today) are having supper with their family.  
 
What time should this day end - please your expertise is required on this matter.  
 
Then when you have that answer please write a letter to the school board telling them you want all and any after school activities cancelled.  
 
While you are at it please... write a letter to the school board and tell them to no longer allow teachers to bring home homework that parents and students demand marks for the next day - let's encourage teachers to only work for 6.5hrs a day - like you said because anything and everything else is personal time.  
 
And dammit! Let's just get them all coffee cards to use up those extra hours in the day that they may have to buy coffee for themselves, because hey! That's why they went to school and all, isn't that right?  
 
Let's get rid of schools in general... because its like they don't do what they are suppose to anymore. Fail people or hold people accountable without fear of being sued or publicly ridiculed for doing what has been successful in the past.  
 
The next teacher I see, I shall throw them a coffee card! Because saying thank-you apparently isn't in our vocabulary this generation.

slurpeegirl said "    Straitup said "    Muppet said "a # of things need to change,   1) Parents need to start taking more responsibility in their child's education. If your child is struggling teachers only can do so much. You as a parent need to step up   2) Province needs to rethink their curriculum.   3) Entrance requirements for acceptance to ED @ university needs to be hard. I understand its 6 yrs of university but come on taking a badminton class to get your degree before ED is a joke.     Everyone can complain all they want about what teachers get paid and can complain about the holidays they get but what a lot of people don't see is the extra hours that teachers NEED to put in before and after school. Lots of teachers need to use their own $ to buy certain supplies for the classroom etc. and lastly they need to put up with the BS from parents.         Edited by Muppet, 2015-09-10 12:46:10" I agreed with everything you said until you said about the extra hours? Teachers start at 9 and end at 330 I know those are not the hours they work but those are school hours. Extra hours then still only equate to what non-teachers do every day without the summers,spring break etc etc   Teachers are awesome.....Most deserve every penny-but that is a different topic! " https://www.bsd.ca/Division/Careers/Documents/BTA10.pdf     that is a link to the collective agreement, for brandon school division. i didn't notice anything about teachers being REQUIRED to do unusually high amounts of overtime or pay for their own classroom supplies. if i missed something, let me know....     i know in past discussions, the amount of hours a teacher works has come up. the school day is only 6.5 hours long but, many teachers "several hours" of work to do outside of classroom hours. those hours would be on one's own time and how efficiently a person uses their time would directly affect the amount of "extra hours" required. also, classroom time can be used to grade assignments, rather than mingling with other teachers and getting more coffee from the staff room. i had plenty of teachers over my 13 years in school and while raising kids, had the chance to meet a whole other group of them. some are more organized and efficient than others and IT SHOWS!!     in my experience, there are 2 different types of teachers. the kind that truly want to educate and then the kind that just wanted a job where they didn't have to work all year long. when i used to go to parent/teacher interviews, it was never hard to tell the two types apart. just a quick look around the room was often enough.   "

Ok so their contract doesn't state they need to work overtime, and you say that they can you use classroom time to correct and grade things. So when does the teaching happen? Why not pay a teacher for 8hrs like a normal work week. That gives them an extra 1.5 hours a day to prep and correct. If teachers don't spend a couple hours each day preparing for the next day they likely have nothing organized and can't prepare to help students.  
 
I'm sure every hour anyone puts in at work can either be billed/paid except for teachers. No employee is going to stick around work for extra hours if there isn't extra pay involved. Teachers that coach after school programs Etc need to put in 80hrs of work to get one day off that 80hrs of unpaid time they could be spending at home. I shake my head at it.  
 

I retired several years ago. Over the course of my tenure I witnessed several approaches to Education as government changed etc. One of the biggest obstacles to education is the "Not my child" approach from parents. Yes some parents do have realistic expectation for their children. Those student could be in a class of 40 and still learn. As a teacher I would have a pile of grading to do but they would do well on standardized tests and on the job after graduation.  
 
Then there are the many who allow their children to not be responsible for their own life. They do not have to remember to even bring their lunch, homework etc. They do not have to attempt to learn because if they are not top of their class it is the teachers fault.  
 
I have heard parents rant at the local rink, coffee shop or where ever. The end result teachers are human and take the easy road and pass students along. These students know they will pass with minimal effort. The bright students are trained not to expend any effort because they will pass anyway. The end result is the rush to the bottom instead of too excel.  
 
Just look at previous education threads on this forum.

just teach the children. Shelf the political garbage and power trips. Just teach the children. How do we improve eduction??? TEACH THE CHILDREN. The teachers are not at fault, it's the whole education system and it starts at the top. Is actual education the priority of our school system, or are the politics of the system getting in the way? Are those at the top there to provide our society with well educated young adults, or to satisfy needs for control and further personal interests? I think the results speak for themselves.

I think everyone is just sitting back and finger pointing in regards to who should be doing more of a better job. In my opinion I believe parents should be stepping it up a bit...as well as teachers..everyone should. I know first hand what it is like to have the teacher make the class "teach ourselves" and I know some parents who then sit down and help teach their children...and I know how the opposite of that scenario is too... Now being a parent myself, I'm realizing how vital parents teaching is. My aunt has a "no tv" policy in her house. She works with her kids daily. They are incredibly smart....(probably smarter then me in more areas then I'd like to admit lol).. I've adopted the same policy in my house.. You want YOUR kids to be better educated? Then YOU step up. I believe that's the only way to make it work. Teachers can always find more material to give students if they are advanced in the class, it's harder to help students catch up....our system is designed for kids to float by, teach your kids that a 60% isn't good enough...then HELP THEM achieve greater.... I will take a large part of the responsibility if my children are struggling in school, as it's my responsibility to help them move forward. Teachers and parents work together, but I believe the foundation starts at home.... That my opinion on the matter...

Family4ever said "I think everyone is just sitting back and finger pointing in regards to who should be doing more of a better job. In my opinion I believe parents should be stepping it up a bit...as well as teachers..everyone should. I know first hand what it is like to have the teacher make the class "teach ourselves" and I know some parents who then sit down and help teach their children...and I know how the opposite of that scenario is too... Now being a parent myself, I'm realizing how vital parents teaching is. My aunt has a "no tv" policy in her house. She works with her kids daily. They are incredibly smart....(probably smarter then me in more areas then I'd like to admit lol).. I've adopted the same policy in my house.. You want YOUR kids to be better educated? Then YOU step up. I believe that's the only way to make it work. Teachers can always find more material to give students if they are advanced in the class, it's harder to help students catch up....our system is designed for kids to float by, teach your kids that a 60% isn't good enough...then HELP THEM achieve greater.... I will take a large part of the responsibility if my children are struggling in school, as it's my responsibility to help them move forward. Teachers and parents work together, but I believe the foundation starts at home.... That my opinion on the matter... "

I will be commenting later after going over information I have printed out regarding this topic. Regarding parents stepping up. It isn't an excuse but I have struggled to help my daughter with homework, even to the point of writing a note to the teacher explaining this. I have done my schooling and such but I have had to re-read the textbooks and handouts and try to decipher questions to be answered. The sad truth is when looking at much of the work I probably repeated myself from high school saying when the heck is one ever going to use this they are teaching. To this day I have yet to have to graph x and y or if 3n+2yx=6 find the value for y....This I have yet to do have a need for also.

The problem isn't that the teachers aren't doing a good job - they've got one of the hardest yet most rewarding jobs out there.  
 
I think the number one issue for lower 'scores' for the province (Country, etc), has to do with this style of curriculum and the lack of consequences for below-standards work. I'm not a teacher, and maybe don't have the facts just right - correct me if I'm wrong, but teachers assign assignments and basically nothing happens if they don't get done. I've also heard (and I apologize if I'm misinformed) that students can pretty much hand in an entire semester's worth of assignments (regardless of when they were due) right before the end of the semester and they will still get credit. (And the teacher now has to mark a huge stack of papers right before exam time)  
 
All this is doing is lowering the value of education for our kids. We get a bunch of people walking out of grade 12 with a diploma just for showing up and expecting the world to keep solving their problems and handing them everything on a silver platter.  
 
How can teachers reasonably be expected to do a good job, when there are no consequences for poor performances and lack of effort?? Answer? They can't!  
 
The only kids who are going to get ahead in a system like this are the ones who naturally excel at things or are very self-driven, and those who have parents who help them and motivate them to do so, and give them consequences.  
 
This world without consequences thing is getting ridiculous. But that's a whole other discussion.  
 
I feel sorry for teachers. Expected to do their jobs with their hands so tightly tied.

Fishin Guy said "    Family4ever said "I think everyone is just sitting back and finger pointing in regards to who should be doing more of a better job. In my opinion I believe parents should be stepping it up a bit...as well as teachers..everyone should. I know first hand what it is like to have the teacher make the class "teach ourselves" and I know some parents who then sit down and help teach their children...and I know how the opposite of that scenario is too... Now being a parent myself, I'm realizing how vital parents teaching is. My aunt has a "no tv" policy in her house. She works with her kids daily. They are incredibly smart....(probably smarter then me in more areas then I'd like to admit lol).. I've adopted the same policy in my house.. You want YOUR kids to be better educated? Then YOU step up. I believe that's the only way to make it work. Teachers can always find more material to give students if they are advanced in the class, it's harder to help students catch up....our system is designed for kids to float by, teach your kids that a 60% isn't good enough...then HELP THEM achieve greater.... I will take a large part of the responsibility if my children are struggling in school, as it's my responsibility to help them move forward. Teachers and parents work together, but I believe the foundation starts at home.... That my opinion on the matter... " I will be commenting later after going over information I have printed out regarding this topic. Regarding parents stepping up. It isn't an excuse but I have struggled to help my daughter with homework, even to the point of writing a note to the teacher explaining this. I have done my schooling and such but I have had to re-read the textbooks and handouts and try to decipher questions to be answered. The sad truth is when looking at much of the work I probably repeated myself from high school saying when the heck is one ever going to use this they are teaching. To this day I have yet to have to graph x and y or if 3n+2yx=6 find the value for y....This I have yet to do have a need for also. "

Do we prepare all high school students for university and college or not.  
Would it be fair to assume all high school students don't need to be prepared for higher education.  
 
You may not need the extra education, but!!  
At 13, should we ask students if they will need a post secondary education and if they say no, should we only teach adding and subtracting?  
 
 
 

 
Hope it works!

Great link MBGirl!  
 
People have no idea about these major differences. Instead they choose to complain rather than look at the big picture. Thanks for sharing.

MBGal not MBGirl  
 
My mistake

MBGal said "   Hope it works! "

of all I wouldn't put a lot of stock into what a six-figure, career unionist has to say. I am a former teacher and I had grow to have no use for the self-serving Manitoba Teachers' Society.  
 
There are many excellent teachers out there. There are also many duds. the excellent teachers get the same amount as the duds. That is unfair.  
 
Many current teachers are working on obtaining their masters degrees, and the school divisions, not only i Brandon, but throughout MB are encouraging teachers to get their masters. This will result in an $8 to $9 thousand dollar increase per teacher per year. Multiply this by the number of teachers enrolling in the masters program and you will see a major increase in salaries over the next 5 years. Now what kind of evidence will parents have that these masters degrees are improving education?  
 
Math and English continue to be a problem. This is due to the provincial government. Math standards are considerably lower than they were 30 years ago. In 1980 multiplying and dividing fractions were done in Grade 6. Now they are done in Grade 8. This is one of many examples of a dumbed down curriculum.  
 
Take a look at what a few professors at our local university have to say about the students they are teaching at university.  
 
http://www.thequill.ca/2014/01/09/canadian-students-suffering-in-math/  
 
And to the person here talking about learning styles. Have a look at this.  
 
http://www.wired.com/2015/01/need-know-learning-styles-myth-two-minutes/  
 
It's good to see people talking about public education. But if we take the words of a teacher union president at face value, then we have larger problems.

Sorbet said "    MBGal said "   Hope it works! " of all I wouldn't put a lot of stock into what a six-figure, career unionist has to say. I am a former teacher and I had grow to have no use for the self-serving Manitoba Teachers' Society.     There are many excellent teachers out there. There are also many duds. the excellent teachers get the same amount as the duds. That is unfair.     Many current teachers are working on obtaining their masters degrees, and the school divisions, not only i Brandon, but throughout MB are encouraging teachers to get their masters. This will result in an $8 to $9 thousand dollar increase per teacher per year. Multiply this by the number of teachers enrolling in the masters program and you will see a major increase in salaries over the next 5 years. Now what kind of evidence will parents have that these masters degrees are improving education?     Math and English continue to be a problem. This is due to the provincial government. Math standards are considerably lower than they were 30 years ago. In 1980 multiplying and dividing fractions were done in Grade 6. Now they are done in Grade 8. This is one of many examples of a dumbed down curriculum.     Take a look at what a few professors at our local university have to say about the students they are teaching at university.     http://www.thequill.ca/2014/01/09/canadian-students-suffering-in-math/     And to the person here talking about learning styles. Have a look at this.     http://www.wired.com/2015/01/need-know-learning-styles-myth-two-minutes/     It's good to see people talking about public education. But if we take the words of a teacher union president at face value, then we have larger problems. "

I would believe the article. We would be incredibly naive if we don't believe that there are other things outside the education system that influence a student's ability to learn. You are quick to try to brush off all of the article's facts. I'm sure he didn't make the numbers up. Our BSD had similar findings last year and if I remember correctly you discounted those findings also. So who does one believe?