Discussions

standard standard h8r said "    Johnbisonbear said "    standard standard h8r said "with G.E.S. and TallCoolOne.     Many of the posters here seem to be motivated by jealousy and personal greed. Many want some city employees to have their income reduced, so that the posters have to pay less tax.     If you think those city employees have such a sweet deal compared to you then get the necessary qualifications, invest years in developing your skills and you, too, could be in that position.     We all made our choices. To whine now because others' choices worked out better is very small-minded. " Give me a break! I've talked to a lot of people with deeper pockets than I have who say Brandon's taxes are too high!     The taxes will no doubt be rising again for the next budget, school board will sock us with yet another increase. That is the worry of citizens!     We come on here to voice our opinions, why be so derogatory towards us?     The Brandon Sun editorial yesterday addresses this very issue, do you think the editors are "jealous" of the city employees wages? Pfft! " I come on here to voice my opinion. When I disagree with your position, why do you claim I am being derogatory ? Are you being derogatory when you disagree ?     Have you ever heard anyone complain because their taxes are too low ?     I know people who would be quite happy to see all city employees take a 25% cut in pay. Their motivation ? Jealousy and greed. They think that if the household income of 1000 city employees was decreased then they would keep more of their earnings. They feel that stepping on someone else in order to improve their situation is justifiable. These same people would revolt if their employer or benefit payer decreased their earnings of benefits. "

when you accuse people of being jealous and suffering from personal greed, your words remember?  
 
As for a 25% cut in pay? That's ridiculous! Plus the only ones that would face any decrease in pay would be the workers out on the streets and that's not right!  
 
Okay you don't think the city has hired too many in management, right, lol

At no point did I say that people were "suffering from personal greed". I said "motivated by jealousy and personal greed". I stand by that.  
 
I was at a business organization luncheon not that long ago, and the consensus among several around the table was that all city employees, except those making less than $15 per hour, should have their pay cut by 25%. They felt that this would be good for their businesses. ( I don't think they considered the loss of disposable income that could be spent in those businesses)  
 
When you wrote "That's ridiculous !", was that being derogatory ?  
 
I also don't know how you concluded that I don't think the city has hired too many in management. Can you explain how you came to that conclusion ?  
 
I am not prepared to jump to the conclusion that there are too many managers or that the existing ones are overpaid. I think there may be some value in examining the situation, but am leery of the possibility of spending $200,000 to study the situation in order to save a fraction of that amount or to determine that more should be spent.

Daphne said "    Brenda said "all sounds like a bunch of jealousy to me.     If any of the posters on this thread made that much, you can bet they would not be posting.     It's what they make, deal with it. " As the taxpayers who are paying those wages we don't have to "deal with it". We have a right to question it. I for one am always confused why Brandon firefighters need to be paid on par with those in Winnipeg. Because of the danger in fighting fires in all of our skyscrapers? I always hear that they get the large salaries because of how dangerous it is. The last firefighter to lose his life on the job was over 60 years ago. And then because of their schedules a lot of them impinge on the private sector by running their own businesses on their down time, effectively taking work from legitimate Brandon companies. I think this department needs to be overhauled! "

Actually believe it or not a house fire is more dangerous than a fire in a high rise skyscraper, because houses made out of wood are more combustible than a concrete skyscraper, concrete doesn't burn. And reality is a firefighter can lay his or her life on the line anytime they enter a burning building, it doesn't matter if they are a paid firefighter, volunteer one or in a big city or small city and Brandon has had a lot of fires in the last few years and big ones to, like the fire that destroyed two houses on Canada day last year(2015) or the fire that destroyed Sturgeon Tire in 2012, the fatal house fire last October on Westway bay just to name a few. Last year(2015) firefighters in Brandon fought 156 fires according to their annual report just realised last week. The firefighter also staff the ambulances, because they are also paramedics. In Winnipeg they don't staff the ambulances, just the fire trucks. They deserve there wages. In my opinion they aren't getting paid that much compared to Police officers and city administration, that's who's getting the big bucks. Plus the overtime you see is from them coming in on there days off to fill in for firefighter away or sick, or to transport patients to Winnipeg hospitals, being called in to help battle a blaze or working after their shift is over because they were called out at the end of the shift. But the city in the last few years is working to cut down the amount of overtime firefighters are getting.  
 
Why are firefighters not allowed to run businesses or work outside of there regular jobs? Lots of people run businesses or farm on the side or work more than one job, whether its for the money or just to keep busy. I doubt firefighters are doing it just for the money and these are legitimate businesses they are running. Reality is if they want to get a side job or start a business they can, just as anyone can.  
 
Edited by The_Young_Man, 2016-07-03 16:00:52

standard standard h8r said "At no point did I say that people were "suffering from personal greed". I said "motivated by jealousy and personal greed". I stand by that.     I was at a business organization luncheon not that long ago, and the consensus among several around the table was that all city employees, except those making less than $15 per hour, should have their pay cut by 25%. They felt that this would be good for their businesses. ( I don't think they considered the loss of disposable income that could be spent in those businesses)     When you wrote "That's ridiculous !", was that being derogatory ?     I also don't know how you concluded that I don't think the city has hired too many in management. Can you explain how you came to that conclusion ?     I am not prepared to jump to the conclusion that there are too many managers or that the existing ones are overpaid. I think there may be some value in examining the situation, but am leery of the possibility of spending $200,000 to study the situation in order to save a fraction of that amount or to determine that more should be spent. "

what you mean by 'personal greed'? Because I'm not understanding what you mean.  
 
So business owners think our taxes are too high too? Just curious, when the owners voiced their opinion of slashing city employees wages by 25% did you stand up and tell them they were just jealous and motivated by personal greed?  
 
As for a review of management jobs within city hall and other buildings I think there is enough staff to figure it out on their own instead of out-sourcing people to do the job.

Timetowakeup said "Actually smoke is way more deadly than flame and the heat and smoke rises in a high rise so no the upper levels of a say 20 floor building way more deadly "

But firefighters wear self contained breathing apparatus(SCBA) when they are fighting fires or coming into smoke or hazardous fumes, so their not breathing in those toxins. They also wear turn out gear that protects them from the heat. What kills and injures most firefighters in the line of duty is flashovers and roof or floor collapses, which mostly happen in wood structures. High rise building are considered "non-combustable" buildings(exact words used by the fire depts) and usually the only thing burning in high rise building is the contents of the suite because there is concrete floors and walls between the suites. What firefighters do when battling a fire in a high rise building, is the go up to the floor below the fire, put there mask on, then head to the floor the fire is on, hook up to the standpipe and then enter the floor and attack the blaze. Yes the smoke will rise up to other floors, just as in any fire, but by the time they reach the smoke they have breathing apparatus on.  
 
 
There''''s your fire 101. And a FYI, Brandon has what is considered "high rise buildings" too, just not as many as Winnipeg.  
 
Edited by The_Young_Man, 2016-07-03 20:07:43

As for a review of management jobs within city hall and other buildings I think there is enough staff to figure it out on their own instead of out-sourcing people to do the job.  
 
Sorry, I do not have the confidence in current City Hall Administration's ability to conduct a review thoroughly and o:bjectively. Especially if it is determined there are too many of them. Plus they are responsible for the empire building and inflated salaries at Executive level. A thorough review must be done by an independent, third party and report directly and only to the Mayor. I do not think even the Councillors can be o:bjective as some of them have been on Council while the empire building and inflated salaries were implemented i.e. the smoke & mirrors of the 2012 Infrastructure budget that was really salary adjustments for Managers & Executives.  
 
Edited by iluv2garden, 2016-07-03 19:58:16

Timetowakeup said "So the city pays for its firefighters to receive training and then further that training to become trainers in whatever discipline. Now the firefighters get together and open elite and now charge to run the courses that the city has paid for them to get that qualification. Now as a business "owner" they take a sick day or a holiday and work at their business rather than for the city who has paid for the course and scheduled them to be on shift, is it fair that they are now required to bring a member in on overtime? I KNOW this has happened and there are records to prove it! It is in my mind a blatant conflict of interest in my opinion, why should they benefit from a city paid for qualification, why isn't the city running these courses and reaping the money to lighten the tax load? In its simplest form to many managers and the right hand doesn't know what left is doing! "

The firefighters are receiving further training every year to keep up to date, payed for by the city, but the city is not hiring people off the street with no experience or training and then training them to be firefighters. The firefighters are only hired after they receive their training from The Manitoba Emergency Services College which is payed for out of the firefighters pocket. Which last time I check was about $25 000. Most of the training comes before they every work for the city. But I''m sure there is defantly courses they have taken through work, that have been used in their business at some point. Even though most courses(that I have taken through work) teched at Elite today, are not taught by firefighters.  
 
Edited by The_Young_Man, 2016-07-03 20:05:38

iluv2garden said " As for a review of management jobs within city hall and other buildings I think there is enough staff to figure it out on their own instead of out-sourcing people to do the job.     Sorry, I do not have the confidence in current City Hall Administration's ability to conduct a review thoroughly and o:bjectively. Especially if it is determined there are too many of them. Plus they are responsible for the empire building and inflated salaries at Executive level. A thorough review must be done by an independent, third party and report directly and only to the Mayor. I do not think even the Councillors can be o:bjective as some of them have been on Council while the empire building and inflated salaries were implemented i.e. the smoke & mirrors of the 2012 Infrastructure budget that was really salary adjustments for Managers & Executives.     Edited by iluv2garden, 2016-07-03 19:58:16"

I will agree with you! Maybe we need a new city manager? After all the buck (or millions of bucks) should stop with him right?

2% inflation compounded every year adds up quickly. That's just to stay at even.

The_Young_Man said "    Daphne said "    Brenda said "all sounds like a bunch of jealousy to me.     If any of the posters on this thread made that much, you can bet they would not be posting.     It's what they make, deal with it. " As the taxpayers who are paying those wages we don't have to "deal with it". We have a right to question it. I for one am always confused why Brandon firefighters need to be paid on par with those in Winnipeg. Because of the danger in fighting fires in all of our skyscrapers? I always hear that they get the large salaries because of how dangerous it is. The last firefighter to lose his life on the job was over 60 years ago. And then because of their schedules a lot of them impinge on the private sector by running their own businesses on their down time, effectively taking work from legitimate Brandon companies. I think this department needs to be overhauled! " Actually believe it or not a house fire is more dangerous than a fire in a high rise skyscraper, because houses made out of wood are more combustible than a concrete skyscraper, concrete doesn't burn. And reality is a firefighter can lay his or her life on the line anytime they enter a burning building, it doesn't matter if they are a paid firefighter, volunteer one or in a big city or small city and Brandon has had a lot of fires in the last few years and big ones to, like the fire that destroyed two houses on Canada day last year(2015) or the fire that destroyed Sturgeon Tire in 2012, the fatal house fire last October on Westway bay just to name a few. Last year(2015) firefighters in Brandon fought 156 fires according to their annual report just realised last week. The firefighter also staff the ambulances, because they are also paramedics. In Winnipeg they don't staff the ambulances, just the fire trucks. They deserve there wages. In my opinion they aren't getting paid that much compared to Police officers and city administration, that's who's getting the big bucks. Plus the overtime you see is from them coming in on there days off to fill in for firefighter away or sick, or to transport patients to Winnipeg hospitals, being called in to help battle a blaze or working after their shift is over because they were called out at the end of the shift. But the city in the last few years is working to cut down the amount of overtime firefighters are getting.     Why are firefighters not allowed to run businesses or work outside of there regular jobs? Lots of people run businesses or farm on the side or work more than one job, whether its for the money or just to keep busy. I doubt firefighters are doing it just for the money and these are legitimate businesses they are running. Reality is if they want to get a side job or start a business they can, just as anyone can.     Edited by The_Young_Man, 2016-07-03 16:00:52"

I have trouble believing it's less dangerous to put out a fire in a huge, tall building than a bungalow but whatever. Now regarding why I have a problem with the firefighters running their businesses, you came back with farmers doing the same thing. I DON'T pay the farmers wages then have the farmer come back and take work away from the same people who pay him a very good salary at his job with the city. Double dipping.

Funny how we are so conditioned to believe what we believe.  
 
http://safemanitoba.com/sites/default/files/resources/annualinjurystats2000_2014_ver2.1.pdf  
 
Here is a link from Safe Manitoba regarding 2014 statistics. Now do firemen and police have higher injury rates than other sectors? Do construction workers get hurt more than police? If so should they be making more? Or is it because they risk the off chance of a potential stabbing, gunfire, etc? Can a construction worker shoot themselves or someone else with a nail gun, fall off a roof, etc?  
 
We have become numb on wages because we compare it to somewhere else. Unions have driven up wages on a scare factor. Unions enforce the "they are in the line of fire, or they face the fire daily" attitude. Too many people tend to pull the Discovery Channel's re-enactment on what ifs. (I love the re-enactments: If that semi had his tire blow out the semi could have veered into oncoming traffic, slammed headfirst into another semi, causing that truck to veer off into a schoolyard running over hundreds of kids while on recess) Well crap at that picture they should be making millions. Sure that police officer attending a call may or may not have a gun pointed at them, or a knife pulled on them. A sheet of plywood could slide off a roof and land on a construction worker below. Is it whoever has the potential lethal hazard gets his wage justified more? Our military that is stationed over seas. Do they make 6 figure wages fighting on the front line or is it passed off because they choose to get shot at or attempted bombings?

loeog said "25,600 no tax - that's 40000 pre-tax income from federal government   http://www.budget.gc.ca/2016/tool-outil/ccb-ace-en.html     Add in 600 per month personal from welfare plus some more for each child.     It's not hard to make 60000 pre-tax these days.     Sadly, we go after the people that work to protect us. "

If you can make equal to 60k staying at home, why is finding a good job a crime.  
 
Edited by loeog, 2016-07-04 09:13:39

Everytime this thing comes up, the same complaint thread comes up along with it.  
 
Personally, I think they should raise the threshold for disclosure. $50,000 isn't really much these days, and there's absolutely no reason why average city employees should have their salaries disclosed to their neighbours.  
 
$100,000 is probably the right level, but $75k would be a start if nothing else.

Daphne said "    Brenda said "all sounds like a bunch of jealousy to me.     If any of the posters on this thread made that much, you can bet they would not be posting.     It's what they make, deal with it. " As the taxpayers who are paying those wages we don't have to "deal with it". We have a right to question it. I for one am always confused why Brandon firefighters need to be paid on par with those in Winnipeg. Because of the danger in fighting fires in all of our skyscrapers? I always hear that they get the large salaries because of how dangerous it is. The last firefighter to lose his life on the job was over 60 years ago. And then because of their schedules a lot of them impinge on the private sector by running their own businesses on their down time, effectively taking work from legitimate Brandon companies. I think this department needs to be overhauled! "

Ok, a couple of things here. First of all, Brandon firefighters are not paid on par with Winniopeg firefighters. Check your facts, they're all public knowledge.  
Second, an employees worth is determined by their likely hood or past history of dying at work? So they shouldn't be paid what they're worth because none of their co-workers have been killed in the lone of duty in the last 60 years? Are you crazy? That is really, really insensitive and shows a complete lack of understanding for the job and what they're paid for Daphne. Advancements in training and tactics have cut down on line of duty deaths more than anything in the last 60 years. Besides, a fire in Brandon, Winnipeg, New York or Alexander is a fire. All the same. Highrise fires have nothing to do with pay scale. Third, Firefighters hace a 48 hour work week. Most public sector employees have a 40 hour work week. I'm pretty sure a firefighter is as entitled to do whatever they want with their free time just as much as anyone else that works for a living. Just because they have another job doesn't mean they can't have a sideline business just like any other person. Lots of people do their own business on the side. Nobody is "impinging" on anyone. It's called a free society, we aren't communists.

Daphne said "    The_Young_Man said "    Daphne said "    Brenda said "all sounds like a bunch of jealousy to me.     If any of the posters on this thread made that much, you can bet they would not be posting.     It's what they make, deal with it. " As the taxpayers who are paying those wages we don't have to "deal with it". We have a right to question it. I for one am always confused why Brandon firefighters need to be paid on par with those in Winnipeg. Because of the danger in fighting fires in all of our skyscrapers? I always hear that they get the large salaries because of how dangerous it is. The last firefighter to lose his life on the job was over 60 years ago. And then because of their schedules a lot of them impinge on the private sector by running their own businesses on their down time, effectively taking work from legitimate Brandon companies. I think this department needs to be overhauled! " Actually believe it or not a house fire is more dangerous than a fire in a high rise skyscraper, because houses made out of wood are more combustible than a concrete skyscraper, concrete doesn't burn. And reality is a firefighter can lay his or her life on the line anytime they enter a burning building, it doesn't matter if they are a paid firefighter, volunteer one or in a big city or small city and Brandon has had a lot of fires in the last few years and big ones to, like the fire that destroyed two houses on Canada day last year(2015) or the fire that destroyed Sturgeon Tire in 2012, the fatal house fire last October on Westway bay just to name a few. Last year(2015) firefighters in Brandon fought 156 fires according to their annual report just realised last week. The firefighter also staff the ambulances, because they are also paramedics. In Winnipeg they don't staff the ambulances, just the fire trucks. They deserve there wages. In my opinion they aren't getting paid that much compared to Police officers and city administration, that's who's getting the big bucks. Plus the overtime you see is from them coming in on there days off to fill in for firefighter away or sick, or to transport patients to Winnipeg hospitals, being called in to help battle a blaze or working after their shift is over because they were called out at the end of the shift. But the city in the last few years is working to cut down the amount of overtime firefighters are getting.     Why are firefighters not allowed to run businesses or work outside of there regular jobs? Lots of people run businesses or farm on the side or work more than one job, whether its for the money or just to keep busy. I doubt firefighters are doing it just for the money and these are legitimate businesses they are running. Reality is if they want to get a side job or start a business they can, just as anyone can.     Edited by The_Young_Man, 2016-07-03 16:00:52" I have trouble believing it's less dangerous to put out a fire in a huge, tall building than a bungalow but whatever. Now regarding why I have a problem with the firefighters running their businesses, you came back with farmers doing the same thing. I DON'T pay the farmers wages then have the farmer come back and take work away from the same people who pay him a very good salary at his job with the city. Double dipping. "

Once again, this post shows a complete lack of understanding of firefighting and a free market economy. Are you saying there should only be one of each type of business in a city? Just in case there might be competition? Heaven forbid. Newer home construction is much more dangerous to put out a fire in, just as The Young Man has mentioned. Obviously you don't know anything about this though.

The_Young_Man said "    Timetowakeup said "Actually smoke is way more deadly than flame and the heat and smoke rises in a high rise so no the upper levels of a say 20 floor building way more deadly " But firefighters wear self contained breathing apparatus(SCBA) when they are fighting fires or coming into smoke or hazardous fumes, so their not breathing in those toxins. They also wear turn out gear that protects them from the heat. What kills and injures most firefighters in the line of duty is flashovers and roof or floor collapses, which mostly happen in wood structures. High rise building are considered "non-combustable" buildings(exact words used by the fire depts) and usually the only thing burning in high rise building is the contents of the suite because there is concrete floors and walls between the suites. What firefighters do when battling a fire in a high rise building, is the go up to the floor below the fire, put there mask on, then head to the floor the fire is on, hook up to the standpipe and then enter the floor and attack the blaze. Yes the smoke will rise up to other floors, just as in any fire, but by the time they reach the smoke they have breathing apparatus on.       There''''s your fire 101. And a FYI, Brandon has what is considered "high rise buildings" too, just not as many as Winnipeg.     Edited by The_Young_Man, 2016-07-03 20:07:43"

Heart attacks kill more fire fighters who die on duty than any other cause.

How many years of training does it take to become a firefighter?

G.Lean said "How many years of training does it take to become a firefighter? "

10 months of training, for a firefighter whose wanting to make a career out of it and enrolls in the Public Fire paramedic program at the fire college here in Brandon. But at a cost of $25 000 paid out of the students pocket.  
 
Edited by The_Young_Man, 2016-07-04 20:32:32

JackAzz said "    The_Young_Man said "    Timetowakeup said "Actually smoke is way more deadly than flame and the heat and smoke rises in a high rise so no the upper levels of a say 20 floor building way more deadly " But firefighters wear self contained breathing apparatus(SCBA) when they are fighting fires or coming into smoke or hazardous fumes, so their not breathing in those toxins. They also wear turn out gear that protects them from the heat. What kills and injures most firefighters in the line of duty is flashovers and roof or floor collapses, which mostly happen in wood structures. High rise building are considered "non-combustable" buildings(exact words used by the fire depts) and usually the only thing burning in high rise building is the contents of the suite because there is concrete floors and walls between the suites. What firefighters do when battling a fire in a high rise building, is the go up to the floor below the fire, put there mask on, then head to the floor the fire is on, hook up to the standpipe and then enter the floor and attack the blaze. Yes the smoke will rise up to other floors, just as in any fire, but by the time they reach the smoke they have breathing apparatus on.       There''''s your fire 101. And a FYI, Brandon has what is considered "high rise buildings" too, just not as many as Winnipeg.     Edited by The_Young_Man, 2016-07-03 20:07:43" Heart attacks kill more fire fighters who die on duty than any other cause. "

Its a dangerous job in more than one way.

Like I said before, being a firefighter is a dangerous job, so are many other jobs. And lets face it, 95% of firefighters don''t get killed while on the job. But there is always a risk of being killed or seriously injured on the job and any situation that involves smoke and fire has a chance of killing you in one way or another. It doesn''t matter the building or city or if your career or volley, things can go wrong. I was a volunteer firefighter for nine years in a small city and had the same training as any other firefighter and seen things go wrong.  
 
But the horse has unfortunately died and there''s no point in beating a dead horse. There wages will never get cut and we could debate this all day, but I can`t. It is what it is.  
 
Edited by The_Young_Man, 2016-07-04 21:13:40

The only way you will see less firefighters near the top of the list is less overtime which means more staffing, which means more benefits and really doesnt save much. The place to save on that list is managers, co-ordinators, planners, assistant managers, directors and so on.