Discussions

I for one am tired of the BSD increasing taxes every year and then wasting the money on upcoming events like the FREE welcome back breakfast the division is paying for with our money. This is for the entire staff including teachers and support staff. Did I mention they all are getting PAID to attend this event and it is mandatory. They will call it some wellness day or some other name because they have some PAID speaker come and talk for an hour about nothing useful. Where does the accountability come into play. Why do we all sit back and allow this to happen. If the increases actually provided any benefit to the students maybe it could be justified. There was a similar day last year during the school year where the Victoria Inn was rented and lunch provided for all the teachers, the support staff at least utilized Crocus Plains on the same day, but were also provided lunch. Seems ridiculous to be renting a facility when there are plenty of gymnasiums available, and let them all buy their own lunches. That's my rant, what are everyone's thoughts on this topic?

every year the school board raises our taxes and I think for the past 2 and maybe 3 they have posted a surplus of a couple of million. What the hell is up with that?  
 
How would we like that if the city of Brandon did likewise to us?

grtwhthntr said "I for one am tired of the BSD increasing taxes every year and then wasting the money on upcoming events like the FREE welcome back breakfast the division is paying for with our money. This is for the entire staff including teachers and support staff. Did I mention they all are getting PAID to attend this event and it is mandatory. They will call it some wellness day or some other name because they have some PAID speaker come and talk for an hour about nothing useful. Where does the accountability come into play. Why do we all sit back and allow this to happen. If the increases actually provided any benefit to the students maybe it could be justified. There was a similar day last year during the school year where the Victoria Inn was rented and lunch provided for all the teachers, the support staff at least utilized Crocus Plains on the same day, but were also provided lunch. Seems ridiculous to be renting a facility when there are plenty of gymnasiums available, and let them all buy their own lunches. That's my rant, what are everyone's thoughts on this topic? "

You must really have an axe to grind with the education system. Sorry you are so bitter. It must be really frustrating leading the life you lead. The BSD has a welcome back breakfast every year, and taxpayers foot the bill for it. Deal with it. This year, after the optional breakfast, and yes, no one will be fired if they do not attend, we are having a keynote speaker. it is funny that the same people who criticize teachers for 'wasting' taxpayers money would also be the first to complain that those same teachers do not have enough training or expertise in an area. I guess some people love to complain. By the way, they are accepting applications at BU in the Education Faculty. Maybe you should look at continuing your education so you can enjoy the benefit of a free breakfast every year. Don't cry, apply

Did I criticize any teacher in my post? The topic is the mismanagement of funds by the division. And they have NOT had a welcome back breakfast every year, not sure where you are getting your info but my first hand knowledge says otherwise. If you read the letter given to all employees the breakfast does not read "optional" but mandatory is clearly stated(although I am sure you are quite correct that no one will be fired as they are allotted a sick day for every nine working days). BTW, don''t need to "apply", I have a quite comfortable job and buy my own breakfasts. You apparent perception is that I am "crying" because I don't receive a free breakfast, when, in actual fact, my point is that if taxes are going to increase it should benefit education of the students, there is no value whatsoever in providing a free breakfast or meal to BSD staff.  
 
Edited by grtwhthntr, 2016-08-25 21:20:25

grtwhthntr said "Did I criticize any teacher in my post? The topic is the mismanagement of funds by the division. And they have NOT had a welcome back breakfast every year, not sure where you are getting your info but my first hand knowledge says otherwise. If you read the letter given to all employees the breakfast does not read "optional" but mandatory is clearly stated(although I am sure you are quite correct that no one will be fired as they are allotted a sick day for every nine working days). BTW, don''t need to "apply", I have a quite comfortable job and buy my own breakfasts. You apparent perception is that I am "crying" because I don't receive a free breakfast, when, in actual fact, my point is that if taxes are going to increase it should benefit education of the students, there is no value whatsoever in providing a free breakfast or meal to BSD staff.     Edited by grtwhthntr, 2016-08-25 21:20:25"

I stand corrected, you are not being critical of teachers. My apologies. Maybe having all of the teachers together once a year to learn, share stories, build relationships and improve morale would actually benefit the education of the students. Ergo, taxpayers money well spent. Instead of suggesting mismanagement of money by the division, one could argue it is excellent value for the money spent. Let's say the cost of the breakfast is 2000$, (which would be .004 of 1% of BSD' s budget) what is your suggestion to improve morale and the delivery of programming for that amount of money? I look forward to your suggestions on how that money could be spent and achieve the same results.

I think your estimate is significantly off, at a staff of around 700 that breakfast is likely to cost over $10,000 , possibly more. Let's also keep in mind they are also paid to be there, so at minimum, let's take 700 employees X 3 hours pay. So that is 2100 man hours, now let's take an average of $25/hr and calculate. 2100 x 25 =: 52,500. Now let's add together the cost of the breakfast plus the cost of the wages. $10,000 + $52,500 =: $62,500 . That is a pretty expensive breakfast........now you see my point? (You can't exclude the wages as there is zero productivity during this function)  
 
Edited by grtwhthntr, 2016-08-25 22:07:05

How many years has the school division had a surplus and yet they continue to whine about needing more money from the tax payers. I am tired of it. I'd like Sefton to explain how surplus = need to raise taxes yearly. The Brandon School Division needs to have more transparency and accountability. Have you ever tried to get answers? The School Division passes the buck. The MLAs pass the buck. And then the tax payers have to hand over the buck. I'm tired of it. The Brandon School Division needs to learn how to budget. I think we've gotten a bit better demanding answers and accountability from the city of Brandon. I expect the School Division to step up.

is the new superintendent.

If you feel this passionately about the subject, I suggest you run for the School Board. You'll have all the answers you seek.

My spouse has to attend this breakfast as the event is mandatory. My spouse feels that it's a waste of time and money as well. In the past, during wellness days they've had an afternoon to go skating and a BBQ at a coworkers place. They are told if they want to be paid they need to attend. Again, my spouse felt this was unneeded and just takes away a day of learning from the children. There have been other examples of wasted time and money that have occurred and it can be frustrating for sure.  
 
It has nothing to do with running down teachers. It's a mismanagement problem in our eyes. We don't know much about other divisions however, so maybe issues like this are common?

WizardWife said "If you feel this passionately about the subject, I suggest you run for the School Board. You'll have all the answers you seek. "

I have a career, the simple expectation is that what I pay in taxes gets used responsibly, The old arguement "so why don't you do it yourself" doesn't wash here, that is what the people in those positions are getting paid to do, anybody can see what a waste of money events such as this are. Believe me there are many other ways they could better manage waste in the budget but scrapping the breakfast would be a good start.

It's hard to count wages when the breakfast is done on personal time.

loeog said "It's hard to count wages when the breakfast is done on personal time. "

It is NOT optional, and it IS during paid time. All employees return to work on the 6th, the day of the event. They have to pay them in order to make it "mandatory". I stand by my calculations, and please note they were on the conservative side.

In all my working years my employers never gave any employee a free "welcome back after vacation" breakfast. Teachers and admin go to conferences to U.S. locations every year and I personally know many of them just laughed about how they had a great time at the taxpayers expense as the conferences for the most part were just a waste of time. Most employers don't give their employees wellness days - there are far too many days wasted on in-services that teachers tell me were of almost no value. Trustees need to have a hard look at all items in the budget and cut out the frills - cut out the wants.  
 
As a senior I am fed up with continually paying more taxes to the division every year. I am really ticked this year since my entire pension increase for 2016 was paid to the school division. You cannot keep asking seniors to hand over their entire pension increase to the school division every year. I plan to be at the school board budget deliberations next spring to express my displeasure about their annual tax increase - I truly feel the taxpayers ability to pay is a very minor concern.

grtwhthntr said "    loeog said "It's hard to count wages when the breakfast is done on personal time. " It is NOT optional, and it IS during paid time. All employees return to work on the 6th, the day of the event. They have to pay them in order to make it "mandatory". I stand by my calculations, and please note they were on the conservative side. "

The second email on the issue was very clear, Breakfast starts 1 hour before we are on the clock and is optional.  
 
The division has a new boss and he wants to lay down his expectations for BSD.  
Sadly, the man has taken a thankless job. He will be hated by half of the staff no matter how good he is, and Ebrandon is doing a great job of rating his performance before he has issued his first command.  
 
Lastly, You have the cost of breakfast at 15 dollars and you have stated we will be paid 3 hours of wages to eat it. "Really"  
 
Edited by loeog, 2016-08-26 00:06:15

agree with the op with the management issues ... getting paid on free breakfast. We pay for this and to do how much from good from it.

loeog said "    grtwhthntr said "    loeog said "It's hard to count wages when the breakfast is done on personal time. " It is NOT optional, and it IS during paid time. All employees return to work on the 6th, the day of the event. They have to pay them in order to make it "mandatory". I stand by my calculations, and please note they were on the conservative side. " The second email on the issue was very clear, Breakfast starts 1 hour before we are on the clock and is optional.     The division has a new boss and he wants to lay down his expectations for BSD.   Sadly, the man has taken a thankless job. He will be hated by half of the staff no matter how good he is, and Ebrandon is doing a great job of rating his performance before he has issued his first command.     Lastly, You have the cost of breakfast at 15 dollars and you have stated we will be paid 3 hours of wages to eat it. "Really"     Edited by loeog, 2016-08-26 00:06:15"

Breakfast may start at 8 but runs right into your "paid hours", and the event is during the workday. How much do you think the "cost per plate" at the Keystone will be, my $15 is likely fairly conservative considering the room rental and cost per plate. The wage calculation I used was extremely conservative considering all staff is paid their entire day's wages, and you know very well that pretty much nothing productive will be done that day. I used three hours because that is the minimum a worker would have to be paid to attend a *required* event. I take nothing away from the new super, in fact I hope he is a stand up guy and cuts waste such as we are seeing here. Like mentioned previously, this is only one example of waste in the division, there are many other *wellness* days etc. that contribute to the problem.

It's ok to gripe, and point out what you believe is wrong with this situation. I agree with many of your ideas/facts in your posts. They are very well thought out and well presented. We can discuss all day about whether this is a good use of the money, and go back and forth about how much it costs. So, put yourself in the upper management of BSD for a minute.(I know you have a career and all that, but humour me) I would like to know what you would do when a new CEO/Superintendent comes on board to a school division that employees over 1000 people. How would you introduce that person? How would you make sure everyone had a chance to put a face to the name, or get a feel for what he is about, his philosophies, his character, his demeanor? Through an email, or a Youtube video maybe? A week-long tour of the schools in our division? Please let us know how you would do it. You brought up the issue. Let's hear your solution to this problem that causes you so much frustration.

Oaklakebatman said "It's ok to gripe, and point out what you believe is wrong with this situation. I agree with many of your ideas/facts in your posts. They are very well thought out and well presented. We can discuss all day about whether this is a good use of the money, and go back and forth about how much it costs. So, put yourself in the upper management of BSD for a minute.(I know you have a career and all that, but humour me) I would like to know what you would do when a new CEO/Superintendent comes on board to a school division that employees over 1000 people. How would you introduce that person? How would you make sure everyone had a chance to put a face to the name, or get a feel for what he is about, his philosophies, his character, his demeanor? Through an email, or a Youtube video maybe? A week-long tour of the schools in our division? Please let us know how you would do it. You brought up the issue. Let's hear your solution to this problem that causes you so much frustration. "

Upon return to work on Sept. 6th there will be a general assembly of all BSD employees held at Crocus Plains Gymnasium at 9:00am. Attendance is mandatory. The purpose of the general assembly is to introduce the incoming superintendent and let him outline his policy and expectations of the division. Meeting will run from 9am-10am. After the meeting all staff will be required to return to their respective places of work.

FYI  
Staff isn't going home after the meeting.  
 
Breakfast on own time.  
Listen to new boss.  
Return to place of work.

Lots of professionals in private industry get paid training, conferences, meetings with the new boss, etc. I am fine with teachers getting similar treatment.

ultraguy said "Lots of professionals in private industry get paid training, conferences, meetings with the new boss, etc. I am fine with teachers getting similar treatment. "

We go through this cost of education discussion every year.  
 
Brandon is very lucky, BSD''s cost per student is and always has been one of the lowest in Manitoba.  
 
Is BSD perfect? No  
Is every dollar spent perfectly? NO  
Are there things that Brandon students don''t have? Probably  
Is discussion good? Yes  
 
Edited by loeog, 2016-08-26 09:09:30

Good point. So, instead of 10:30 return time, you would have them return to work at 10 am. A savings of 30 minutes. You would have saved the taxpayers the cost of renting the Keystone Centre and buying breakfast. You would still have to pay wages for the mandatory meeting. On a fifty million dollar budget, what is a couple thousand dollars to have the staff feel valued and honoured by their employer? I believe that is money well spent. We will agree to disagree on this one, I guess.  
 
Edited by Oaklakebatman, 2016-08-26 09:18:01

Employees are not going to Crocus Plains gym...where are you getting this info from? I'm looking at the letter right now!  
And furthermore, the breakfast is at he Keystone centre.

tryinghard said "Employees are not going to Crocus Plains gym...where are you getting this info from? I'm looking at the letter right now!   And furthermore, the breakfast is at he Keystone centre. "

Wants us to go stand in the Crocus gym for the 2 joy filled hours as we listening to the new guy.  
 
It''s Kind of a cost saving issue for Grtwht  
 
Edited by loeog, 2016-08-26 09:31:00

My spouse has to be back to work on this coming Monday with a few other teachers/admin and doesn't get paid until the end of September.  
I am looking forward to my spouse pocketing food from this breakfast like my spouse does every year to last a while.  
 
August/September is always the hardest two months for us.  
 
But again, lets happily gripe the teachers!  
 
Those awful teachers only getting paid once a month 10 months of the year and getting taxed heavily that what looks like 7000$ a month pay check comes outs to 3800$ or less because of the heavy taxes.  
 
Silly teachers giving up their free time to use their spouses car and gas money to drive students to events on their apparent off time but hey, those silly teachers are robots dammit! They must be there for all our societal needs including:  
- being burnt at the stake for teaching children to think for themselves  
- public mobbing for doing what the public expected of them then didn't  
- disrespect them in the classroom and online because omg they are teachers... No souls... Right??  
- ugh lets whine about teachers that have tattoos too  
-oh! Let's not forget the supplies teachers buy for their students.  
How terrible of them to do this and yet if teachers send home a supply list ugh!!! The tragedy!  
 
Damn people becoming teachers and teaching people. Damn people wanting to help raise a world of critical thinkers and support all (children in corrections i:ncluded) to be the very best citizen they can be.  
 
But hey, who else is a slave and works for free?  
Who else can we rip apart as a profession... Anyone?

loeog said "    tryinghard said "Employees are not going to Crocus Plains gym...where are you getting this info from? I'm looking at the letter right now!   And furthermore, the breakfast is at he Keystone centre. " Wants us to go stand in the Crocus gym for the 2 joy filled hours as we listening to the new guy.     It''s Kind of a cost saving issue for Grtwht     Edited by loeog, 2016-08-26 09:31:00"

Misunderstood growth. He/She was giving us an alternate scenario in lieu of the breakfast option.

FYI  
To accurately understand education spending, enrolment changes must be i:ncluded. For Canada as a whole, the increase in per-student spending in public schools after accounting for the effects of price changes was 30.8% between 2003-04 and 2012-13: from $9,231 to $12,070.  
 
Saskatchewan saw the largest increase in per-student spending in public schools after adjusting for price changes. It experienced a 43.8% increase from $9,929 in 2003-04 to $14,282 in 2012-13.  
Manitoba recorded the smallest increase (14.9%).

eros86 said "My spouse has to be back to work on this coming Monday with a few other teachers/admin and doesn't get paid until the end of September.   I am looking forward to my spouse pocketing food from this breakfast like my spouse does every year to last a while.     August/September is always the hardest two months for us.     But again, lets happily gripe the teachers!     Those awful teachers only getting paid once a month 10 months of the year and getting taxed heavily that what looks like 7000$ a month pay check comes outs to 3800$ or less because of the heavy taxes.     Silly teachers giving up their free time to use their spouses car and gas money to drive students to events on their apparent off time but hey, those silly teachers are robots dammit! They must be there for all our societal needs including:   - being burnt at the stake for teaching children to think for themselves   - public mobbing for doing what the public expected of them then didn't   - disrespect them in the classroom and online because omg they are teachers... No souls... Right??   - ugh lets whine about teachers that have tattoos too   -oh! Let's not forget the supplies teachers buy for their students.   How terrible of them to do this and yet if teachers send home a supply list ugh!!! The tragedy!     Damn people becoming teachers and teaching people. Damn people wanting to help raise a world of critical thinkers and support all (children in corrections i:ncluded) to be the very best citizen they can be.     But hey, who else is a slave and works for free?   Who else can we rip apart as a profession... Anyone? "

Nowhere in this thread is there anything derogatory towards teachers, in fact just the opposite. I have stated on a couple occasions that if my taxes are to be increased I would rather see it spent on benefitting the students (eg.classroom resources, etc.) Furthermore I fail to see why ones ability or inability to manage their personal finances would enter into the discussion. As this thread gets longer people will fail to read through its entirety and the quality of discussion will be diluted with knee jerk responses. I have had my say I feel no further need to defend my position to every post. I wanted it out there for everyone to know just a small part of how funds are mismanaged, and I wish all the best to the new superintendent on running a better division.

I don''t think anyone was off track.  
I think people just pointed out the truth to correct any misdirection you might have implied.  
 
Breakfast is optional and on your own time.  
 
Meeting at the Keystone using chairs versus standing in Crocus gym for 2 hours makes sense to some.  
 
Meeting the new top boss of BSD to hear his take on education, may or may not be the waste of time and money that you have suggested.  
 
BSD is not out of control: fact is, it is one of the lowest cost per student divisions in a province with the lowest cost increases in Canada.  
 
Edited by loeog, 2016-08-26 10:26:32