Discussions

So reading the Brandon Sun there is almost a 75% funding cut regarding English classes at ACC. Should the Brandon School division do the same thing? Should the cost be put on the individual instead of the taxpayer. We obviously have a flawed system of the criteria on immigration. Sure in the end they will be a contributing taxpayer but at what cost? Larry Maguire made the comment of "they won't succeed in retaining a job and therefore will need various other forms of government financial assistance, which I would argue cost more in the long run than language training." Ok that may be true but why is Canada allowing low English standards for citizenship? I think I would be more prone to supporting funding if I saw more families putting in effort to learn the language outside the classroom. In public places they are always talking to their kids and family members in their own tongue. Sure it is easier for them but doesn't that hinder their learning curve to better their English skills? If more effort was done outside the classroom it would take less time to learn would it not? Should the individual be responsible for the cost or should it be publicly funded?

I have a lot of friends who are children of immigrants. They speak their mother tongue with their parents, but English with everyone else. English is their main language, despite what a stranger might assume based on seeing them with their family.

I taught English as a Second Language for several years. Some of those years I was paid, and some of those years I was a volunteer.  
I would strongly advise against cutting ESL training in the public school system.  
I have taught in the ESL program at ACC. Please understand that in Brandon, Manitoba, once someone becomes a Canadian citizen their only option to continue their language training is by paying thousands of dollars to attend Brandon University's very good English for Academic Purposes program. If the person does not wish to pursue academics, this program is very difficult and unnecessary.  
To become a Canadian citizen, a person needs a Canadian Language Benchmark (CLB) score of 4 in Reading, Writing, Listening and Speaking. You can find information here http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?qnum=569&top=5 and here http://www.language.ca/index.cfm?Voir=sections&Id=17355&M=4038&Repertoire_No=2137991327 you can find information on what a person needs to be able to achieve to be granted that level.  
Only those who are able to access the UFCW training centre (so Maple Leaf workers) can take continued ESL classes after obtaining citizenship.  
What more effort do you want to see outside of classroom? Most students work a full time job, then attend lessons 4-5 days a week. Speaking their native tongue does not hinder their English skills when they are speaking to their family. Do you see these people making an effort to speak English to English speakers? By asking them to speak English 100% of the time you are forcing these people to risk losing their native tongue. That, is unacceptable.  
I believe language training should be publically funded to a point. When you have a refugee coming to our country who can barely read or write in their own language, and then thrust them into another language, I believe they should get support. When you have a family member who has been brought to Canada by someone in their family who worked hard for them to get here, they should be allowed to access free language.  
When I lived in Alberta, language training was fully paid for by the government until Level 5. Afterwards, students paid tuition to reach higher levels.  
Did you know most college programs require a CLB level of 8? Did you know that it costs anywhere from $300 to $500 per test to get an IELTS, TOEFL or CELPIP test done? These tests are usually required for University programs.  
So you want these people to pay money for language training, then pay more money for testing (which they may not pass the first time)?  
I'm sorry that I'm being very rude and short here, but I am very irritated by statements that language funding should just be cut out completely. I have seen my students work themselves to the bone at 2 jobs while also attending language learning just so they can make it in this country.  
If the Brandon School Division even entertains the idea of cutting language learning that would be the worst possible thing they could ever do. I own a home. I pay my taxes. My son has children in his grade 1 class who get extra support to learn our complicated language. What is so wrong about that?

I read the Brandon Sun articles the last two days and no were did it indicate the cost to the people that take the courses. On looking into the cost there is no cost to these people . In some cases they receive free day care while taking the courses.  
 
The budget cut is for level 5 to 8 correct? So then level 1 to 4 will remain free. If someone told most people that they would have to pay 50% of the costs of a education in a language if they pass the course would jump at the chance. Maybe the cuts could be so that the courses of 5 to 8 are subsidized at a 50% split paid by the government and the participant? The real issue is not that it can't be made available but who will pay for the services.

The students didn't pay for the courses because the college received Federal Funds to run them. When I worked there, we had asked if there could be "fee payer" spots in the classes, so for Canadian Citizens, and the Feds said no. I was never told why because I was just a peon.  
The problem with the cuts is not so much which levels are cut. It's the time frame. All of the evening and weekend classes will be cut. Only one instructor will be on staff for daytime courses. My outrage with this is that those students who work all day no longer have any language learning options.  
When the Feds pay for things it gets complicated. An example is that Westman Immigrant Services receives Federal funds to operate. Because of this, the people they are allowed to assist is restricted to Permanent Residents only. They cannot help Canadian Citizens or those on permits unless it is during a program that receives alternative funding.  
ACC only offers levels 5-8. For language learning for levels 1-4 students must go to Westman Immigrant Services.  
My biggest problem with OP's post is that they suggest the school division should consider cutting language classes as well.  
No, no, no, no.  
Does it matter if they can access free childcare while attending classes?  
There are several solutions but the issue is whether or not the college wants to consider them. Based on my experience as a former employee in this program, my gut says no.

but I'm wondering what's happened to the times when people from other countries who'd been here for some time volunteered to teach newcomers in evenings & on weekends. I'm not suggesting that we should be "stuck in the past" by any means, but there were thousands of "DP's" came here years ago. They went to school or work in the daytime then to "school" in the evening; all volunteers from their homeland communities. I think I'm not wrong in thinking that Manitoba has a fine record in volunteering so what would make this area different?

TEN said "This really flies in the face of the Prime Ministers announcement that "we'll take them all if US doesn't want them." Typical double speak in action. "

last I heard - on this evening's news - we're "taking them in" by the dozens each day. I think that's not the issue that's being discussed.

I think these people need to know and speak fluently the language of the area they are going to be living

MDG said "    TEN said "This really flies in the face of the Prime Ministers announcement that "we'll take them all if US doesn't want them." Typical double speak in action. " last I heard - on this evening's news - we're "taking them in" by the dozens each day. I think that's not the issue that's being discussed. "

warnings that when spring comes even more refugees will cross the border. If Manitoba will be letting them stay who is going to teach them English? They need to be working and not staying and overburdening the welfare system.

C'sgetdegrees said "I think these people need to know and speak fluently the language of the area they are going to be living "

It's possible for that to happen? Most of the immigrants who [i]willingly[/i] come here try to do that.  
However, those who are refugees and live in refugee camps often have no idea which country is going to take them in.  
Don't you think they try?  
Your statement is close-minded and ignorant.

I'm curious, would like to know where cuts in government spending, grants etc. should be made? Government cuts funding because it has to or raise taxes more. Just saw 100million in cuts to health care tonight on the news!

TEN said "    MDG said "    TEN said "This really flies in the face of the Prime Ministers announcement that "we'll take them all if US doesn't want them." Typical double speak in action. " last I heard - on this evening's news - we're "taking them in" by the dozens each day. I think that's not the issue that's being discussed. " If we are going to let them come, and I have no issue with that, then we must also help them to get established, and that means helping them to learn the language so they can get jobs and support themselves. "

that I didn't see it as "double speak". Our PM had said we'd take them in: no talk of ongoing costs re:ESL. And who are these "we" you're speaking of to help them get jobs & support themselves? That would be the government, right? That's us - the taxpayers. We had people here & in Winnipeg with nowhere to sleep in the dead of winter. Wouldn't it have been equally humanitarian of "us" to have kicked in & helped them? Let's treat everyone equally,yes? - no?