Discussions

Happy_ Hour said "    Trevor B said "    Happy_ Hour said "What was the actual wording in the ad? " 'no kids' is how it was worded in a list. " I guess if it was the OPers personal preferance to hire someone with no kids he/she should have been a bit more discreet in seeking out that info.     I think perhaps in an interview ask things like "What kind of things do you like to do in your off time?" Or "How available are you for extra shifts or overtime?"     I think people will freely bring out the kid topic on their own if asked the right interview question.     I dunno...is that approach more legal? "

Employers don't get to dictate the family life of employees. Period. Not secretly, not openly. It is against the law, it is a clear violation of human rights. You can be stringent in requiring attendance and notice, but I'll tell you something, you're going to have turnover like you wouldn't believe and it will be your own fault. IT IS ILLEGAL TO DISCRIMINATE ON THE GROUNDS OF FAMILY STATUS. Period. You can discriminate on whether the person is available to work the shifts you need, that's fine, but that's it.

Happy_ Hour said "    Trevor B said "    Happy_ Hour said "What was the actual wording in the ad? " 'no kids' is how it was worded in a list. " I guess if it was the OPers personal preferance to hire someone with no kids he/she should have been a bit more discreet in seeking out that info.     I think perhaps in an interview ask things like "What kind of things do you like to do in your off time?" Or "How available are you for extra shifts or overtime?"     I think people will freely bring out the kid topic on their own if asked the right interview question.     I dunno...is that approach more legal? "

My interpretation is that much of that would fall under:  
 
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[i]14(4) No person shall use or circulate any application form for an employment or occupation, [b]or direct any written or oral inquiry to an applicant[/b] for an employment or occupation, that  
 
(a) expresses directly or indirectly a limitation, specification or preference as to any characteristic referred to in subsection 9(2): or  
(b) requires the applicant to furnish information concerning any characteristic referred to in subsection 9(2):  
 
unless the limitation, specification or preference or the requirement to furnish the information is based upon bona fide and reasonable requirements or qualifications for the employment or occupation[/i].  
 
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I suppose for argument’s sake one might try to get into that last sentence, but they won’t get very far since you can’t assume that just because someone has kids they are unable to be punctual….. just as you can’t assume that someone from (insert religion here), (insert race here), (insert gender here), (insert sexual preference here) or (insert hair colour here) is more punctual or less punctual. There could easily be a second stay-at-home parent, live-in grandparent, neighbour or babysitter on standby at a moments notice. All of this without knowing the age of the “kids.” If punctuality and availability are vital (which they absolutely could rightfully be) maybe someone that has done more hiring than me can chime in but I assume your best course of action is to check with references regardless of whether there are 0, 2 or 22 kids.  
 
I should also be clear that the ad that was the subject of this thread was removed the same day this thread was started and is not on the site. I appreciate that the business has sort of apologized and that they’ve admitted it in the first place. That’s to me a lot better sign than someone who could’ve just said they meant it a different way or someone that hides and hopes it will all blow over. If I were them, after having made that admittance I’d be going a step further and making it clear that I’ll be considering parents on equal footing with all other applicants which as of now they seem to have stopped short of doing. I can’t force them to say that but I do reserve the right to accept or deny further postings based on what I may perceive to be risk for a violation of this nature. Because so many businesses know and respect the rules around hiring and advertising its extremely extremely rare for me to have to remove a job ad (I think I can count the amount of times on one hand that I’ve had to do it in 12+ years of eBrandon), but if justified and in the interests of the audience its something I will do. If you ever notice an ad, job or not, that you feel should be reviewed I very much appreciate reports submitted through the “report” link on every ad on the site.

"If going forward you receive an application from the absolutely perfect prospective employee who happens to have a child at home you will or will not consider them for the position?"  
 
yes i will consider applications from employees with a child at home, ofcourse.... my wording has been poor.  
 
I feel unprofessional for my poor choice of words, my intentions we're not and never would be to not hire someone who has kids, we love kids, we have kids menus that we made that welcomes kids to our establishment.  
 
we also have staff that have kids, we have former staff who have had kids, we are open to hiring employees who have kids, we support it, my apologies to the whole community, i never meant any kind of discrimination, i feel really bad about this and will learn for future ads.

Thank you for that.  
I’m someone who believes that people make mistakes and that they’re capable of learning from them. There’s a new ad in the Jobs section with updated criteria, and my gut tells me the the words above are sincere and that employees and potential employees with kids are part of the picture at the business (should it even somehow come up that it’s a parent applying for the job). One thing in all of this that should be noted is just how extremely rare it is for the operator of a business to face this kind of issue directly in a thread. That willingness to address head-on is something I respect.  
 
I know that this has been an emotional discussion for many and understandably so… human rights and how they apply to employment are a serious topic that shouldn’t be taken lightly if there’s the impression someone may not be getting the treatment they’re entitled to. Its been a worthwhile discussion as there’s a ton of value in talking about topics of this nature in this medium and perhaps more than a few folks may have learned a thing or two as it evolved.

Well you broke one of the biggest rules, you discriminated against people based on family status. Maybe learn the employment laws of Manitoba and Canada before you go placing ads?

I will be reading the rules and regulations of employment laws of Manitoba and Canada before i will be placing more ads, again the wording was incorrect, there was no discrimination intended and there is no reason to lie, my clientele who knows me and my businesses, know we are not based on that term.