Discussions

Just heard on CBC news that a man was attacked with what is believed a home made knife. Didn't catch when it happened though. Sounded like last night?

the man is clinging to life, with severe head injuries and surgery.  
 
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/brandon-attack-andrew-scott-1.3723718

Things are getting crazy out there. There was another serious assault on 12th street on Saturday night that also sent a man to the Health Sciences Center in Winnipeg in serious condition and a guy was stabbed Friday night while sitting in his truck on 13th by someone unknown to him. Hopefully the victims make a full recovery.  
 
But it seems like the 8th street bridge has just become a crime magnet since it closed.  

BPS data - in last 6 months there been 9 assaults, 8 fights, 7 liquor offences and 1 robbery in bridge/Crystal hotel area. #bdnmb #Westman

&mdash: Ian Hitchen (@IanHitchen) August 16, 2016

 
 
Edited by The_Young_Man, 2016-08-16 18:55:55

Here's a updated article from the Brandon Sun with a lot of details.  
 
Link:  
http://www.brandonsun.com/breaking-news/Victims-family-calls-for-more-policing-390377831.html?thx=y

and tear that darn thing down! Anyone think it's a good idea for a pedestrian/bike bridge still? The same incidents will happen when cars cannot travel the bridge!

No lighting, parts are invisible from the street, cops can't get up there in their cars, located in the most dangerous part of town.  
 
Problems like these should have been easily foreseeable.  
 
Thing is that we actually need a bridge there. There are a lot of people in that area that don't drive and don't want to spend half-an-hour on a bus in order to cover a five minute walk (town center, Dr.s appointments, 7th street access).  
 
Not everyone drives and not everyone can work by the busses schedule (especially when they are only running every hour.)  
 
Some people work hours that make busses impractical or impossible for them.  
 
I'm a big fan of having a full-service bridge there with a wider sidewalk for bikes / pedestrians like the 18th street has.  
 
Remember that this bridge was nowhere near as dangerous - regardless the hour - when it was open to traffic.

Has there been any talk about maybe setting up cameras on either side of the bridge and maybe one up toP. Could be some form of deterent but definitely not a solution.

The whole area lends itself to this type of behavior. there's two bars within spitting distance of each other, it's a hot spot for the homeless, in a notoriously low income area.  
All of those things alone aren't the cause of the area being so rough but together they contribute to the general vibe. Fights aren't uncommon around that bridge is what I'm saying and neither or muggings or undesirable drunks or what have you. Unfortunately whether or not the bridge is there won't really have much bearing on what happens in that area. The bridge is just a location within that mini biome, the underlying problems will continue to exist.

better yet just shutdown the crystal

It is to be leveled in November. Why spend a dime on it now. Camera's etc. Just Get the BPS to do more drive boys and "horrors" get out and do foot patrols.  
 
Under the bridge is sketchy 24/7.  
 
I have yet to hear what CP rail plans to do with foot traffic breaking their rules. It will happen big time.  
 
I still think 30 million on a bridge used by walkers/bikers/3500 vehicles a day is more of a priority than other plans.  
 
Is 30 million plus more of a priority for the duck pond upgrades? .  
 
My math at least by the dollar per person says it is not even close.  
 
The few big events a year at the pond is pricey.  
The choice has been made. Obviously though the city has a spending problem. Tax increases better stay under inflation rates.

amber&jeremy said "better yet just shutdown the crystal "

ban alcohol all together Same for drugs  
 
Streets would be a whole lot safer!

amber&jeremy said "better yet just shutdown the crystal "

the crystall is probably one of the better run beer parlors in town,it does seem that when trouble happens at or near any bar,the crystall is the only one indentified by name. i am familiar with some property near the bridge and negative incidents have increased dramatically since the bridge was closed.i do not expect that it would be possible to get the police to walk the bridge often enough to make any difference.

They should move up the date to have it torn down, people still need a walking path to cross the tracks, I have lived in the area for a few years. We can'be expected to take a bus down town which was a 5 min walk. People will be crossing the tracks, nobody will want to walk to 18th Street.....

They should move up the date to have it torn down, people still need a walking path to cross the tracks, I have lived in the area for a few years. We can'be expected to take a bus down town which was a 5 min walk. People will be crossing the tracks, nobody will want to walk to 18th Street.....I have never been bugged crossing this bridge, but then again I barely use it but my teenager will in the fall when school starts if he misses the bus, I do not want him crossing the tracks and I am sure it will be annoying to take a bus to the bus terminal to catch another bus to school when we can see the bus terminal from 7th St north, which is an extremely quiet street. 7th street north to the river is a quiet area. Sucks that this has happened and the city has no solutions so it seems....The crystal should be torn down and so should the city centre, there is no need for these bars. Sorry to offend anyone who loves these places, down town would be a bit safer without them. Like the article says these people came from the crystal......hasn't the area where the other two bars that have been torn down become a bit safer. I certainly feel safer walking up 9th to Princess and near the Y area. If there isn't anything for these people in the area they will move to an area that benefits them...this was not a random attack.

I used to sit at the window and just watch the circus...it was sad.

Crystal and City centre are busy for a reason.  
 
Close them and something else will open. Some people may not like the clients but the owners do. Pays many peoples wages and we get property tax.  
 
The CP police will have their hands full. I can see CP fencing from Dennis Street to 26th solid.  
 
If someone gets hurt they may be libel. Not just a wire fence either.

attack probably took less than 2 min to take place. So unless the police are stationed there 24/7, the chances of them seeing the attack in progress are remote. They may have just past but minutes prior. And that goes for any other attack other places in the city.  
 
Cameras might help after the attack to see what took place and possibly identify the attackers, but again unless someone is watching 24/7.  
 
Even if it was open to vehicle traffic, at that time of day traffic would be very sparse. And the attackers would just wait till the traffic went by. This attack could just as easily happened on the pedestrian ramps on the bridge when the bridge was fully open.  
 
The type of bridge makes no difference in these attacks. The attackers are opportunistic.

amber&jeremy said "better yet just shutdown the crystal "

does that solve the problem...what about the other hotel/bar one block further west that is also a hote/bar and vendor? The Crystal is better staffed and managed and has not only cameras but competent management who deal with unruly patrons. I can't say the same for the other establishment....

Doug said "Crystal and City centre are busy for a reason.     Close them and something else will open. Some people may not like the clients but the owners do. Pays many peoples wages and we get property tax.     The CP police will have their hands full. I can see CP fencing from Dennis Street to 26th solid.     If someone gets hurt they may be libel. Not just a wire fence either. "

trespassed and took the route through the rail yard even when the bridge was fully open. And it is fenced already for most of that stretch.  
 
Just because you don't want to wait for a bus or take other available routes gives your the right to trespass on railroad property. And if you get hurt doing so is your fault.  
 
And the city is looking at building a pedestrian bridge over the rail yard to replace the 8th St bridge.

Oryx said "    amber&jeremy said "better yet just shutdown the crystal " does that solve the problem...what about the other hotel/bar one block further west that is also a hote/bar and vendor? The Crystal is better staffed and managed and has not only cameras but competent management who deal with unruly patrons. I can't say the same for the other establishment.... "

then the attackers may of never been in a bar that night. Maybe they were at home drinking. Then again they may not of been drinking also.

lots of people have opinions on what goes on, on that bridge. Have any of you walked over this bridge recently ? Doesnt matter the time of day, there is usually a couple weird people somewhere on that bridge, usually surrounded by empty beer cans or bottles. This happens day or night, the bridge is a magnet for crime, and nobody is ever patrolling it. The city plans to tear it down in the future ... how about for now can the police still patrol it? I for one would love to see a new bridge built to replace the current one. I just want people to understand that there still is good people that live in this area, and we own houses down there. Now we buy into this area and a main access road is closed with no plans to reopen for traffic , but all we hear about is a walking bridge ... who is paying for that? I will say my property taxes just went way up in the north end, and im getting far far less city services and less access roads. Please dont build a useless walking bridge and up our taxes again for something that hardly anybody will use. I also will say some think we need a walking bridge .... then the ones that want it should pay for it, its useless !!

Trevor B said "attack probably took less than 2 min to take place. So unless the police are stationed there 24/7, the chances of them seeing the attack in progress are remote. They may have just past but minutes prior. And that goes for any other attack other places in the city.     Cameras might help after the attack to see what took place and possibly identify the attackers, but again unless someone is watching 24/7.     Even if it was open to vehicle traffic, at that time of day traffic would be very sparse. And the attackers would just wait till the traffic went by. This attack could just as easily happened on the pedestrian ramps on the bridge when the bridge was fully open.     The type of bridge makes no difference in these attacks. The attackers are opportunistic. "

park their butts on the bridge to drink and party! This couldn't happen if there was traffic, no matter how sparse!

The Crystal hotel has been around way longer than you have. You look like a Houstons or Roadhouse couple. I do recall a lady just getting beat at Houstons. Should it be closed? There are young punks fighting all the time at the Roadhouse. Should it be closed? If the 8th street bridge is a dangerous place, don't go there. When I'm in different cities , I stay away from dangerous areas. Common sense. The Crystal has the coldest beer in town, great people who own and run the place, and it's nice to go for beer in a bar that doesn't have young people and pritzies who are texting and can't put their phones down.

I actually think that getting rid of the bars/vendors in the downtown area would be a positive step forward in helping fix this problem. The city has regulations on what certain types of retail businesses can be in the downtown area, so it wouldn't be a far stretch to change the regulations for establishments that sell alcohol. Think about how things down there would change if there was no Crystal or vendor to walk into to grab a few beers.

thatsjustme said "I actually think that getting rid of the bars/vendors in the downtown area would be a positive step forward in helping fix this problem. The city has regulations on what certain types of retail businesses can be in the downtown area, so it wouldn't be a far stretch to change the regulations for establishments that sell alcohol. Think about how things down there would change if there was no Crystal or vendor to walk into to grab a few beers. "

we will have to get rid of the other restaurants & lounges that offer alcohol service as well....and there are plenty within the downtown core area that many walks of life quite enjoy. Remember the Brandon Inn & the Beaubier? They were both demolished and guess what....there are STILL problems with public intoxication, open liquor and drunkeness within the down town core area and the incidents of violence relating to alcohol consumption has not subsided. Maybe you want to live in a perfect world but it's not realistic to expect the city to ban one establishment from serving alcohol and allow another within a block radius to allow alcohol service.

thatsjustme said "I actually think that getting rid of the bars/vendors in the downtown area would be a positive step forward in helping fix this problem. The city has regulations on what certain types of retail businesses can be in the downtown area, so it wouldn't be a far stretch to change the regulations for establishments that sell alcohol. Think about how things down there would change if there was no Crystal or vendor to walk into to grab a few beers. "

I don't think it is people in the bars causing problems. It is people drinking, doing drugs or whatever outside on the bridge causing problems. I would guess most could not afford to drink in a bar.

Oryx said "    thatsjustme said "I actually think that getting rid of the bars/vendors in the downtown area would be a positive step forward in helping fix this problem. The city has regulations on what certain types of retail businesses can be in the downtown area, so it wouldn't be a far stretch to change the regulations for establishments that sell alcohol. Think about how things down there would change if there was no Crystal or vendor to walk into to grab a few beers. " we will have to get rid of the other restaurants & lounges that offer alcohol service as well....and there are plenty within the downtown core area that many walks of life quite enjoy. Remember the Brandon Inn & the Beaubier? They were both demolished and guess what....there are STILL problems with public intoxication, open liquor and drunkeness within the down town core area and the incidents of violence relating to alcohol consumption has not subsided. Maybe you want to live in a perfect world but it's not realistic to expect the city to ban one establishment from serving alcohol and allow another within a block radius to allow alcohol service. "

I'm not talking about banning alcohol service. There is a difference between a restaurant and a bar, and this idea would involve defining that difference obviously. The city has very defined regulations for what businesses can and cannot operate downtown, so I don't think I'm speaking outside the realm of possibility. And no I don't live or want to live in a 'perfect world', and I patronize all of the restaurants/pubs downtown on a regular basis, as well as many of the other businesses. This is why I don't want our downtown to keep heading in the direction that it currently is. I walk down those streets every week doing my business/banking/shopping and I would like more people to do the same. Every city is going to have some crime and you are never going to be able to completely eliminate homelessness or public intoxication etc in the downtown area. But I think there could be steps taken to mitigate these issues, and one of them is to stop attracting certain types to the area.

thatsjustme said "    Oryx said "    thatsjustme said "I actually think that getting rid of the bars/vendors in the downtown area would be a positive step forward in helping fix this problem. The city has regulations on what certain types of retail businesses can be in the downtown area, so it wouldn't be a far stretch to change the regulations for establishments that sell alcohol. Think about how things down there would change if there was no Crystal or vendor to walk into to grab a few beers. " we will have to get rid of the other restaurants & lounges that offer alcohol service as well....and there are plenty within the downtown core area that many walks of life quite enjoy. Remember the Brandon Inn & the Beaubier? They were both demolished and guess what....there are STILL problems with public intoxication, open liquor and drunkeness within the down town core area and the incidents of violence relating to alcohol consumption has not subsided. Maybe you want to live in a perfect world but it's not realistic to expect the city to ban one establishment from serving alcohol and allow another within a block radius to allow alcohol service. " I'm not talking about banning alcohol service. There is a difference between a restaurant and a bar, and this idea would involve defining that difference obviously. The city has very defined regulations for what businesses can and cannot operate downtown, so I don't think I'm speaking outside the realm of possibility. And no I don't live or want to live in a 'perfect world', and I patronize all of the restaurants/pubs downtown on a regular basis, as well as many of the other businesses. This is why I don't want our downtown to keep heading in the direction that it currently is. I walk down those streets every week doing my business/banking/shopping and I would like more people to do the same. Every city is going to have some crime and you are never going to be able to completely eliminate homelessness or public intoxication etc in the downtown area. But I think there could be steps taken to mitigate these issues, and one of them is to stop attracting certain types to the area. "

please explain what "certain types" are?  
 
 
What shopping, banking, etc are you doing on Pacific around the 8th st. Bridge?

I read somewhere that the attacker was known to the victim. It would seem this was not an unprovoked attack. Although nobody derserves to have this happen to them it is probably more to do with lifestyle and a personal conflict between two people rather than the bridge itself.

Trevor B said "    Doug said "Crystal and City centre are busy for a reason.     Close them and something else will open. Some people may not like the clients but the owners do. Pays many peoples wages and we get property tax.     The CP police will have their hands full. I can see CP fencing from Dennis Street to 26th solid.     If someone gets hurt they may be libel. Not just a wire fence either. " trespassed and took the route through the rail yard even when the bridge was fully open. And it is fenced already for most of that stretch.     Just because you don't want to wait for a bus or take other available routes gives your the right to trespass on railroad property. And if you get hurt doing so is your fault.     And the city is looking at building a pedestrian bridge over the rail yard to replace the 8th St bridge. "

Most of the stretch means it leaks like a sieve. Between 18th and eight there is issues.  
 
The 10 plus million waking bridge is simply a waste unless they find value added .  
 
Wide enough to have farmers market stalls. Maybe train watching spots?  
 
We want the best value for a ten million foot bridge. If we refuse to pay 30 million for a all purpose vehicle/bus/police car/firetruck friendly bridge.