Discussions

Can anyone tell me why most employers don't specify a wage when advertising a job? Is it appropriate to ask a wage before applying? I don't want to spend my time doing up a resume, scheduling an interview and all that to find out they pay less than where I am currently.

That is a big pet peeve of mine. I agree. What does competitive wage really mean? $1 over minimum? Lol.  
 
My husband wasted a lot of time at interviews only to be told the wage for his trade was $15-18 per hour when at his current position he was making almost double. He wouldn't have even bothered if the wage had been advertised.

I wish they''d list it as well! I''ve often wondered if you get called for an interview is it rude or would it put the employer "off" to ask what the wage is before accepting an interview? In my mind it just saves everybody from wasting time but I''m not sure if it''s proper etiquette  
 
Edited by <3, 2016-05-29 13:16:20

what this says to me is there is a high turnover of employees. The ones they are attracting are basically entry level or kids just out of school.  
 
I have been to interviews where the work was labour intensive only to find out they were paying a bit above minimum wage, but that's a whole different thread.

I think it is proper etiquette to assume that the wage will be fair and based on industry standards, also asking what the wage is can make an applicant seem like they are more just simply interested about getting a paycheck, or a better paycheck, and not having much other enthusiasm about that particular job.  
 
I suppose it's how you ask as well, if after the interview is complete you ask what the compensation is with an "after thought" tone, that might not be so bad.

I wouldn''t mind working M-F  
 
8 - 4  
 
over 16/hr.  
 
lol  
just saying...  
 
ok back to studying accounting  
 
Edited by MikeD., 2016-05-29 13:42:45

What it usually means is that the wage or salary isn't set in stone and is negotiable depending on the qualifications of the applicant.

Well sad to say this but I found that Brandon seems to be one of the "Black Holes" Of Canada. I tried to find a career in Brandon with a competitive wage. I am a Red Seal Technician in my trade and after investigating the low wage black hole called Brandon. I was offered 16$ per hour at most employers only to max out at 18 per hour. This is after 10 years of experience and 4 years in a Trade College.  
 
Turns out all I had to do was escape the black hole. I packed up all my stuff and my family and moved to a part of Canada that actually has fair wages and the same cost of living and almost immediately I was able to make more then 10 per hour more.  
 
So let me clarify. Living in Brandon 18 - per hour and Living in Alberta 30 - per hour and in the city where i am, the exact same cost of living. Actually a bit cheaper.  
 
If you are a business in Brandon and only want to pay your employees 16 or so dollars per hour, then don't be surprised when you get someone who will only do 16 per hours worth of work. Good hard working employees deserve to be compensated fairly.

DrDaze1620 said "Well sad to say this but I found that Brandon seems to be one of the "Black Holes" Of Canada. I tried to find a career in Brandon with a competitive wage. I am a Red Seal Technician in my trade and after investigating the low wage black hole called Brandon. I was offered 16$ per hour at most employers only to max out at 18 per hour. This is after 10 years of experience and 4 years in a Trade College.     Turns out all I had to do was escape the black hole. I packed up all my stuff and my family and moved to a part of Canada that actually has fair wages and the same cost of living and almost immediately I was able to make more then 10 per hour more.     So let me clarify. Living in Brandon 18 - per hour and Living in Alberta 30 - per hour and in the city where i am, the exact same cost of living. Actually a bit cheaper.     If you are a business in Brandon and only want to pay your employees 16 or so dollars per hour, then don't be surprised when you get someone who will only do 16 per hours worth of work. Good hard working employees deserve to be compensated fairly. "

I am curious about something though so maybe you can enlighten me. From your post it would appear that you believe business owners in Brandon are raking in the profits by underpaying their staff. Since you have so much experience in your industry (10 years!) why not just start your own business in the "Black Hole of Canada" and then you could make all that money at the expense of others? You could go to the bank and secure the capital, put your money at risk, do all the hiring for those super low wages you could pay and make even more than the $30 and hour you are making in Alberta. Seems to me that would be a much better opportunity for you wouldn't it?

I work for an organization that recently hired a high level employee. The job was posted without any wage i:ncluded-because wages were to be part of the negotiations. This organization does not pay low wages-quite the opposite. We are extremely well paid and the new person is no exception. With a high school education I make over $30 per hour. The newest person is very close to $40/hr  
 
So-do not assume that every job pays poorly if no salary is i:ncluded in the posting.

When employers put a salary range on a job des:cription, immediately everybody assumes they should be at the max of that range, whether or not their qualifications are there. It's funny that a fresh graduate from high school thinks that they should be making 50,000-75,000 with no secondary education.  
I agree it is frustrating to not have it but at the same time it's nice to have a bit of negotiation power. If the employee is a good fit for the company, they will give them what it takes to get them there. Plus benefits is a huge factor in wage/negotiations. Lower salary can be common but with year end bonuses and large RRSP contributions it far outweighs the low salary. If only salary is posted people would perhaps not apply.

is a big reason why as an employer I will not post wages. We are in a highly competitive profession and if I post exact wages/info on a website, my competitors can see that and figure out how to #1 steal employees by offering them "better" wages, #2 (and most important) can figure out roughly what I could be bidding on upcoming job and undercut me. You may not believe it, but in our market if we profit 10% (anyone in my business knows that it's that tight) can take that and roughly guess what I will be coming in on the next bid at. If they are a smaller company (which they all are) they can quickly undercut me due to my higher....much higher overhead.  
If you are that put out by having to write a resume, don't apply for the job and stay where you are! If you are that serious about bettering yourself, you should always have a resume drafted up so that you can quickly make slight adjustments and have it ready to email. If you are making a new resume every time you want to apply for a job, you are doing something drastically wrong (cover letter can be done for every job and is different then resume).  
You may not agree with my reasoning, but that's the joy of being the employer. I may have missed out on some decent employees, but if you want my job that I am advertising you won't really care if there's a wage on it or not. You send me your resume, IF I call you for an interview I will give a brief breakdown of the job, with ballpark wage. If you want to come in for the interview, I tell you the exact same ball park and depending on your experience and interview, that is how I decide on your wage (which is also set by HR and myself) and you don't know the exact wage, until you tell me you would like to have an offer letter and once that is all done, you will finally know your wage. At that time you either accept the wage and take the job or decline it (there is no bartering for higher wage).

That is great that you give a ballpark of wage over the phone before the interview is set up but majority of employers don't.  
 
My husband went on many interviews only to find out the wage was $10-$15 lower than what he was currently making. It was a waste of time for all involved. Some professions do have that big of a wage range unfortunately so "competitive wage" means nothing.

JessieJay said "I work for an organization that recently hired a high level employee. The job was posted without any wage i:ncluded-because wages were to be part of the negotiations. This organization does not pay low wages-quite the opposite. We are extremely well paid and the new person is no exception. With a high school education I make over $30 per hour. The newest person is very close to $40/hr     So-do not assume that every job pays poorly if no salary is i:ncluded in the posting. "

Would love to know what great place you work at! Those are dream wages to me!

Sometimes an employer won't post a wage because it leave it open for negotiations in the interview. I've had possible employers ask me what I think was a fair starting wage. For the job I had applied for to me 15-16/hr was fair. The only thing is, if you ever get asked this question, think hard! Do not low ball yourself!

Viv said "When employers put a salary range on a job des:cription, immediately everybody assumes they should be at the max of that range, whether or not their qualifications are there. It's funny that a fresh graduate from high school thinks that they should be making 50,000-75,000 with no secondary education.   I agree it is frustrating to not have it but at the same time it's nice to have a bit of negotiation power. If the employee is a good fit for the company, they will give them what it takes to get them there. Plus benefits is a huge factor in wage/negotiations. Lower salary can be common but with year end bonuses and large RRSP contributions it far outweighs the low salary. If only salary is posted people would perhaps not apply. "

Not everyone. I recently had an interview and the job ad had a wage range. When asked what I expected for a wage I replied with the lowest. I am straight out of college and do have some experience, but not directly related to the job.  
 
Applicants will make themselves look bad if they just say the highest wage and don't have the experience and qualifications to back them.  
 
I've been applying to job with and without wages being told. If one ends up being $0.50 over minimum wage and I've had no other job offers, I'll take it. But I'll also continue to apply for other jobs. I went to college for 2 years to get a decent-ish paying job.

enternamehere said: Applicants will make themselves look bad if they just say the highest wage and don't have the experience and qualifications to back them.  
 
I find that untrue. Anyone who is competent, believes in themselves, know they are a good worker, know they can be flexible and know they can do that job, will say the highest salary. Shows they have confidence and the go get them attitude.

Brenda said "enternamehere said: Applicants will make themselves look bad if they just say the highest wage and don't have the experience and qualifications to back them.     I find that untrue. Anyone who is competent, believes in themselves, know they are a good worker, know they can be flexible and know they can do that job, will say the highest salary. Shows they have confidence and the go get them attitude. "

That''s ok. I dont agree with your statement. But doesn't mean I'm wrong.  
 
Edited by *enter name here*, 2016-05-30 20:36:51

DrDaze1620 said "Well sad to say this but I found that Brandon seems to be one of the "Black Holes" Of Canada. I tried to find a career in Brandon with a competitive wage. I am a Red Seal Technician in my trade and after investigating the low wage black hole called Brandon. I was offered 16$ per hour at most employers only to max out at 18 per hour. This is after 10 years of experience and 4 years in a Trade College.     Turns out all I had to do was escape the black hole. I packed up all my stuff and my family and moved to a part of Canada that actually has fair wages and the same cost of living and almost immediately I was able to make more then 10 per hour more.     So let me clarify. Living in Brandon 18 - per hour and Living in Alberta 30 - per hour and in the city where i am, the exact same cost of living. Actually a bit cheaper.     If you are a business in Brandon and only want to pay your employees 16 or so dollars per hour, then don't be surprised when you get someone who will only do 16 per hours worth of work. Good hard working employees deserve to be compensated fairly. "

Works in a trade. 30 years experience but only 3rd level. He has been at his current job about three years and is making almost $30 per hour. Jobs are out there. Attitude and work ethic goes a long way.

JessieJay said "I work for an organization that recently hired a high level employee. The job was posted without any wage i:ncluded-because wages were to be part of the negotiations. This organization does not pay low wages-quite the opposite. We are extremely well paid and the new person is no exception. With a high school education I make over $30 per hour. The newest person is very close to $40/hr     So-do not assume that every job pays poorly if no salary is i:ncluded in the posting. "

I sent you a PM.

You would be surprised!

Timetowakeup said "Wages unless a huge hike will not "steal" an employee if they are happy! I'm very happy where I work and have been offered $2.00 to 3.50 more to work elsewhere I declined not because I would not like a raise but my employer treats me well and wait for it..... With RESPECT!!!! It would take at least 8 to 10 an hour to leave and even at that point I would really have to think before jumping. If you treat your staff well and with respect and ensure team moral is high your competition will have to pay so much to steal guys they should never come in below you on a bid! But treat them as wage slaves that you own and yup they will probably jump for .25 to .50 if money is all you give! Not saying it's what you do just saying think about it. "

And that is fact! There are far fewer people in certain professions that care about loyalty due to a nice boss. I am in the same boat as you, maybe a little more in a sinking ship then a boat. I have not left after multiple job offers for higher wages from competitors, but there are lots that see $0.50 more per hour and drop all loyalty and come to the office and try to get a raise to match it. When they're told you can't match it, performance and moral is hurt and they either jump ship or just get more and more miserable. I've seen people leave due to different pay structures (in our profession) and take the "higher" wage/rate only to get screwed because there was no o/t after a certain amount of hours.  
I'm happy that you are loyal, as am I, but that is a very dying trait in the workforce now a days.

Timetowakeup said "I used to manage a few places and larger groups of employees and I used to be sure it was all money! Then we started having a company interview all those that left " exit interviews " I can honestly say that maybe 1 in 15 said the reason for leaving was more money! The only reason you say and feel that is you were just like me and felt that was the reason as that is all you hear at the office. The reason most given was that that is all the office thinks about and getting more money was the only way they could measure their value or receive positive negative feedback. When an employee feels like this and you say no rather than get to the root of the problem yes they will leave for the same or even less money.... True story as hard as it is to believe. "

it's not bull, maybe it's just a different situation in each profession. My profession it is a very true fact of life! I have good friends that work for competitors and are absolutely miserable. They threaten to leave, get a little raise and their job becomes the best place they've ever worked....for about a week, but they stay for the money. Not all professions are the same and each one draws a different type of employee to it. I know most of the places I have worked are very much about wage and not so much about loyalty. I have had the other side, like yourself and myself where we would rather work for respect then the higher wage, but in my profession it is way deep in the shadow of the other side.  
My boss is decent....not good, but decent. I love my job, the people I work with and what I get to do. I stay because of the people I work with and I love what I do. NOT the wage that I was stuck at for 3+ yrs with more and more added to my list of titles and NOT the 30% reduction I have taken (instead of a raise) in the past year due to the economy, NOT the benefits that have been cut and for sure NOT my boss that I might hear from once every 3mths. I look for other opportunities and keep my options open, and when I do leave it will be due to #1 money, #2 respect & #3 family time, all which are lacking right now, but I put behind me for the love of my employees and what I do.  
This is also a true story as hard as it is to believe!! We are sort of hijacking this thread, but at the end of the day every profession has their differences and while yours was 1 way, mine is probably 75/25 wage and employer/manager. But that's the nature of my profession!