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Brandon Water Park Planning

Brandon Water Park Planning

No Comment
Joined: Feb 2009
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No Comment
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 765

Brandon Water Park Planning
7/30/2021 at 1:08 PM

For those who love the water park idea (an all year operation):
A committee has been meeting for the last two weeks and relentless to find the $ and political and municipal backing for the waterpark. Private and public funding is available. The political and financial hurdles you may think are massive, can be overcome. This has become a necessity in our city when you consider it's size and growth. Would be amazing venue for younger population and families. Also will draw in tourist and bring a good boost to local economy.

Since the posting on a local page to see what the interest was like, there has been a huge and positive response. This shows the need which will drive the success in the implementation stage.

This will be within the city limits. Concept and design is underway and, contrary to popular belief, the funding is the not a big obstacle! I believe this will happen when you see the commitment of Judy Walker and her team.

The proposals and the former meeting minutes can be viewed. Anyone interested to throw their ideas into the pot, let me know by INBOXing me or contact 204-817-0550 for details on upcoming meetings and venues. I would love to connect you with the team and see this kickstarter progress greatly.
Cheers...
Exhausted
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 1756

Exhausted
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 1756

tried in past???
8/3/2021 at 12:46 AM

hasn't this been tried a number of times in past - and never worked long time in Brandon area. Just many temporary ones set up just the summer.

people liked it at first then stopped going

there isn't enough families in Brandon to support it.

Cost was too much for multi visits.

Can't see it working. Not sure if I want my taxes going to pay for it and then see it wasted.

Good luck anyway. Time will tell.
Orion's-Belt
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 579

Orion's-Belt
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 579

Why not
8/3/2021 at 5:16 AM

We have the sportsplex. The city has dumped millions and millions of dollars into it. Why not just keep it open all year long. The city would benefit from that more then anything kids would get swimming lessons. There would be an aquatic play space with a waterside and Tarzan rope. I’m sure there is some kind of floating inflatable thing they could put in the middle part of the deep end. We already have the building and the infrastructure. Let’s just make it useable.
JosephC
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 135

JosephC
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 135

Water park
8/3/2021 at 8:18 AM

I think citizen engagement in their community is great, but I'm not sure about this concept.

This post talks about it being a year-round facility and funding not being the biggest issue. Apparently design is underway?

Their official posts elsewhere don't seem to mention the year-round concept, and there's talk of a GoFundMe approach. They also seem somewhat adamant that this belongs on the Keystone Centre grounds.

None of this has much credibility to me at this point. You can't be doing design on a waterpark, saying it should be at Keystone, saying money isn't a problem, and talking about GoFundMe without having commitment from the City. Lots of engagement and motivation, but I don't see much knowledge of how to actually approach a project that is as complex as this post (and some of the posts elsewhere) would suggest.

It might be best for people to let the leader of this initiative do the talking, because posts like this don't add any credibility to the concept.
Johnbisonbear
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 4183

Johnbisonbear
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Posts: 4183

i think
8/3/2021 at 9:06 AM

focus should be on a year round facility. Why spend all that cash for a waterpark that can only be used a few months of the year? Just my opinion.
FredFeb
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 892

FredFeb
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 892

No
8/3/2021 at 9:12 AM

IMO this will never happen. We had a waterpark on grand valley road YEARS ago called “Thunder Mountain” and they were closed. Before Walmart was built in the corral centre, CITY was planning to add a waterpark there but not enough greenspace so they scratched that out of the plan. You can get 10000 signatures and in the end no one will fork the money because words are words. Look what happened to the park community centre ….. *crickets*
RainaRo
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 724

RainaRo
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 724

accessibility
8/3/2021 at 12:46 PM

If it’s within city limits and there is a bus route near by I think that it would work. People seem to think that everyone can just jump in a car and go. This isn’t true and needs to be a priority. I believe this is why somewhere outside of city limits didn’t work as well. Also having a wheel chair accessibility to the pool would be nice as well.
Adam

Joined: Mar 2005
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Adam
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Posts: 15663

Aquatics complex
8/3/2021 at 12:57 PM

For a little more context, this has been on the city's radar since the release of the most recent rec master plan where a need has been identified for an "enhanced outdoor aquatics complex" that should include some of "water slides, lazy river, splash areas and lane swimming, and meet a high standard for accessibility and comfort including zero entry access, shaded grassy areas, expanded changing rooms and canteen building."

More on the need and future direction toward filling it at the link below starting on Page 52. Timing for implementation at that time said to be 2025-2029, tho not sure what wrenches Covid might or might not have thrown into that:
https://brandon.ca/images/pdf/Recreation/Recreation_Master_Plan.pdf
Not clear if what OP is describing is part and parcel to this, or considered separate?
No Comment
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No Comment
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Posts: 765

Good know.
8/4/2021 at 5:58 PM

Adam said "
For a little more context, this has been on the city's radar since the release of the most recent rec master plan where a need has been identified for an "enhanced outdoor aquatics complex" that should include some of "water slides, lazy river, splash areas and lane swimming, and meet a high standard for accessibility and comfort including zero entry access, shaded grassy areas, expanded changing rooms and canteen building."

More on the need and future direction toward filling it at the link below starting on Page 52. Timing for implementation at that time said to be 2025-2029, tho not sure what wrenches Covid might or might not have thrown into that:
https://brandon.ca/images/pdf/Recreation/Recreation_Master_Plan.pdf
Not clear if what OP is describing is part and parcel to this, or considered separate?
"
Will pass this info onto Judy, who is on planning committee.
GetRec'd
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 234

GetRec'd
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 234

....
8/5/2021 at 8:02 AM

It seems like these major plans come up relatively often, whether it be a water park, a major soccer facility, community centres, etc, but the one concern I always have is ongoing funding.

Overall, I'm of the mind that more community areas, and recreation outlets are a positive, and generally I don't get too concerned with where the moneys come from. However, in these cases I don't think it's easy to overlook the simple fact that the City and Province have never really been able to live up to the long-term funding needs of these projects.

There are already major facilities in the City that service some recreation needs and they are struggling annually to keep up with repairs, and necessary upgrades because of a lack of long-term funding.

Perhaps it would be prudent for the City and Province to look at doing what they can to keep those facilities in a state that can service the community's needs, before committing to spending millions of dollars on new facilities that have more limited use. I can't imagine what the case for a FIFA sized soccer field in Brandon, MB is, but I doubt that it provides a larger community service than maintaining the City's ice rinks, existing soccer facilities, and community centres.

I'm all about getting soccer field's maintained, but getting our hopes up for new state of the art facilities, when the facilities we already have are largely neglected on an ongoing basis seems wishful at best.

More on topic: I don't really see the need for a year-round waterpark, but it's not for me. Would be curious to see what the Sportsplex sees for annual pool visits, and how that has been factored in to the planning of a year round water park...
Farmergeorge
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 1837

Farmergeorge
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 1837

I agree
8/5/2021 at 9:03 AM

It’s great when communities can come together, fundraise and bring such projects to fruition but alas ongoing maintenance,upkeep, repairs and management are rarely considered. Volunteers burn themselves out and local authorities often don’t step up to look after these community assets so they often are allowed to deteriorate or are closed due to lack of funding or help. This is a great shame as projects like these have enormous potential to improve communities and attract families.
My local town recently spent $400,000 building a spray park. Some fundraised money and some municipal which arguably could have been used to improve other existing community assets . It’s a great facility maybe in the wrong place, it is rarely used, upkeep costs are high and it doesn’t earn any money directly. One positive is that it attracts a few people to visit and vacation in this town and possibly that’s good enough.
shopper1
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 13

shopper1
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 13

Question
8/6/2021 at 12:25 AM

As a former resident, I am curious as to why the City of Brandon sold Curran Park? I remember playing softball on the lighted diamonds and there being a lovely pool. This was in the early 80’s and it seemed like a beautiful park.
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No Comment
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Meeting Info
8/6/2021 at 2:20 PM

WATER PARK in BRANDON MEETING :

Wednesday August 11, 2021 @ 7pm
North End of RIDEAU PARK on Lorne Avenue
Under cover at the picnic tables....
MEETING is for anyone that is interested in joining our group: and being part of a committee or just wanting to check things out. Interest is growing daily. We welcome Moms & Dads, Grandparents and Brandon Citizens that want a place to swim or float down that lazy river etc. This movement is for you , for your children, for your Grandchildren. Let's make it happen !
Regards:
Chairman: Judy Walker Co-Chair: Ron Cayer
Adam

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 15663

Adam
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Posts: 15663

Meeting
8/6/2021 at 2:58 PM

No Comment said "WATER PARK in BRANDON MEETING :

Wednesday August 11, 2021 @ 7pm
North End of RIDEAU PARK on Lorne Avenue
Under cover at the picnic tables....
MEETING is for anyone that is interested in joining our group: and being part of a committee or just wanting to check things out. Interest is growing daily. We welcome Moms & Dads, Grandparents and Brandon Citizens that want a place to swim or float down that lazy river etc. This movement is for you , for your children, for your Grandchildren. Let's make it happen !
Regards:
Chairman: Judy Walker Co-Chair: Ron Cayer "
So folks have a little more of an idea what they're being invited to and where it fits into the city's recreational facilities plan can you guys please share if this initiative is alongside/in support of efforts in the City of Brandon rec plan for an outdoor water facility or if this is over and above/separate from those plans?
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No Comment
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Yes
8/6/2021 at 9:51 PM

Adam said "
So folks have a little more of an idea what they're being invited to and where it fits into the city's recreational facilities plan can you guys please share if this initiative is alongside/in support of efforts in the City of Brandon rec plan for an outdoor water facility or if this is over and above/separate from those plans?
"
Good idea. I will forward this to the crew and respond soon.
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No Comment
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reply from Judy
8/7/2021 at 12:26 AM

Due to her busy agenda, asked me to c/p her response as follows verbatim:
---

Hello Adam,

On July 17th I placed a post on People Of Brandon about Brandon needing a water park . Within 24 hours I had 737 responses. That is all it took for me to move forward on my dream for our city.

I knew the City Recreation Plan was out there but it was too far down the road in my opinion. This mission of mine is not against the city but it is For the People of Brandon. Our city has swept these type of issues under the carpet too many times. I immediately started setting up a main committee and arranged a meeting with our Kris Doul for July 24th who is our Provincial Regional Manager -Westman for Recreational and Regional Services. Had a great 2 hour meeting. I am the Chair and Ron Cayer is our co-chair.

Ron Cayer... a long time former alderman brings with him a wealth of knowledge and is easy to work with.

We are almost finished a Facebook Page making it easier for people to follow our progress. We are setting up committees for fund raising , locations, etc. One of the best pool design Companies is right in Winnipeg. That is who designed the Souris Pool.

What our goal is for Brandon is a 'destination' pool. It will be a major draw for our city bringing families from all over lower Manitoba etc and travellers in off the highway for sure. It will be good for our economy and for our entire city as a whole. A win/win situation in my opinion and a growing opinion by many others. Our aim is to be able to build this project on city land or land donated that is in the city, close to transportation, has adequate parkin and reasonably user fees.

I have so much more that I could add but it would cover your page. We are only 24 days old and have made some fantastic progress. People are coming forward from everywhere wanting to help. Parents, Grandparents and interested citizens. This project is going to happen.... take my word on that.

I hope that this project can be turned over to the city of Brandon once completed.

The meetings are wide open to everyone who is interested in seeing Brandon become a Destination Water Park.

Regards ,
Judy walker
vegimite
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 686

vegimite
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Posts: 686

I'm a little confused
8/7/2021 at 8:32 AM

at the "all year " aspect of this water park.
I'd have thought that unless a large part is under cover that it would be frozen solid for 5-6 months of the year.
I can see it being attractive for maybe a couple of months in summer but if relying on families it will be mainly busy at weekends, children schooling, parents working etc.
Not sure about people coming from all over lower Manitoba, with Souris having a facility you have probably lost folks who live near there, and the same applies to the many other towns that have beaches, lakes and pools.
What costings has anyone come up with, short/long term? What are likely charges and expected/needed attendance. Folks are not going to drive a couple of hours each way and pay a high price for something that can be got free at a local beach.
Now to put in a heated tropical pool with waterslides and rafting rivers as well as a pool and catering facilities. A side of the building could be opened up and a pad for relaxing between actions would be used all year.
Just my thoughts.
Farmergeorge
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 1837

Farmergeorge
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Posts: 1837

And
8/7/2021 at 8:47 AM

Who is going to staff and maintain such a facility and pay insurance and upkeep in the long term. These are great ideas but large and expensive long term commitments
happytee
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 398

happytee
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 398

Negative nellies
8/7/2021 at 3:22 PM

Shocked at all the negative feedback. Any project undertaken has drawbacks, but I personally applaud the people involved in getting this going.

To those comparing it to Thunder Mountain - it was located in the wrong space for its time. It was also operating in a time faced with high interest rates, no social media to advertise, and spring a totally different era in time.

I think a water park in Brandon will be a good thing. I’m sore the committee is well aware of the challenges, but rather than walk away they are choosing to forge ahead. I believe if you spoke to any of the communities that have undertaken this type of project you would find they encountered all of this, but have managed to find ways to overcome their obstacles.

Congratulations to this committee for taking action - there will be many like me who can’t wait to come support it!
vegimite
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 686

vegimite
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Posts: 686

Web search
8/7/2021 at 3:29 PM

for water parks in Canada throws up a few sites. The Bromont site in Quebec charges $41 adult per day and $27 after 3pm, park hours are 10am to 6.30pm. Could not see any child or family figures.
This one in BC has slightly cheaper rates but charges a $10 parking fee and taxes on top of the rates.
https://www.cultus.com/cultus-lake-waterpark/
I'm sure in all the parks that season/family tickets will work out a better option, if they are available. I assume these parks are profitable but they do have a milder climate and a greater population than we do around Brandon.
As an example of the maintenance costs, the Diana playground in Kensington Gardens in London, UK had a pirate ship sitting on a beach of 30 tons of silver sand. Not only did the sand have to be replaced every 6 months, but before each days opening it had to be sifted (machine) to remove any bits of glass, ring pulls and other debris, including diapers and excrement. Each item of equipment had to be inspected daily and signed off as within health and safety regulations.
Insurance coverage will be needed, staff available at all times and probably a first aid station.
What is the water park going to be used for in winter, presumably the inflatable equipment will be removed and put into secure, monitored storage.
bethechangeyouwanttosee
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bethechangeyouwanttosee
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Inflatable?!! No thank you!!
8/7/2021 at 4:11 PM

Let’s all hope the proposed park is higher end than inflatables?!! Something more toward Portage Splash Park quality should hopefully and surely be within the community’s capabilities and scope. Tons of families from ALL over Manitoba descend upon the Souris pool and splash park EVERY year. The fact that Brandon doesn’t have a large, accessible pool and water park is actually embarrassing.

If it’s going to happen, do it right. I will financially support any substantial effort proposed for a high quality, large, outdoor water park and pool complex in Brandon! Fingers crossed!
Iceman69
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Iceman69
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Souris and splash island
8/7/2021 at 5:31 PM

I am sorry.. but if this all year round waterpark is the size of souris and splash island it will not work! No one will pay for a small waterpark like that year round!

They need to look at canadas wonderland and west edmonton mall waterpark. What they have to offer for children and as well as adults.
bethechangeyouwanttosee
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bethechangeyouwanttosee
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Uh?
8/7/2021 at 5:39 PM

Uh? I did not indicate that it should be the size of Souris.

I said it should be the quality of Portage and that if a Souris-sized one can be supported by Souris, then a Brandon-sized one should be able to be supported by Brandon. So…
JosephC
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 135

JosephC
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 135

Well
8/7/2021 at 7:11 PM

happytee said "Shocked at all the negative feedback. Any project undertaken has drawbacks, but I personally applaud the people involved in getting this going.

To those comparing it to Thunder Mountain - it was located in the wrong space for its time. It was also operating in a time faced with high interest rates, no social media to advertise, and spring a totally different era in time.

I think a water park in Brandon will be a good thing. I’m sore the committee is well aware of the challenges, but rather than walk away they are choosing to forge ahead. I believe if you spoke to any of the communities that have undertaken this type of project you would find they encountered all of this, but have managed to find ways to overcome their obstacles.

Congratulations to this committee for taking action - there will be many like me who can’t wait to come support it! "
I don't think people are being "Negative Nellies" so much as they are asking good questions and making some good points.

In Judy's response, it indicates that the goal is to put this on city land or donated land within Brandon and near transportation, and then hopefully hand this over to the city when completed.

That's the very issue lots of people are pointing out. You can build it, but somebody has to pay to operate and maintain it long-term. If the city is going to end up with all the operational and maintenance costs, perhaps they should be fully supportive from the start, which would likely mean the city leading the whole effort precisely so that they can plan the long term cost not just of this facility, but other impacts to city infrastructure.

Otherwise, the question many are asking is actually very important - who is going to pay for this after it's built?

I get it's very early on, but there's also a whole lot of mixed messaging.

Edited by JosephC, 2021-08-07 19:16:02
Adam

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 15663

Adam
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Posts: 15663

Water facility
8/7/2021 at 8:16 PM

I commend anyone with the ambition to help make the city better. There is absolutely a need for a water park/enhanced water facility in the city, be it indoors or out…. Something I’ve long been a proponent of if it can be done with the scale of something meaningful and at manageable cost between taxpayer contribution and ratepayer who are using it. It’s been exciting to see the city take an outdoor water facility seriously in recent years and include one in the rec plan. Any time the topic comes up online it rightly generates a lot of excitement too.

Absolutely over previous decades there has been a dropping of the ball under previous leadership, something that has been acknowledged in the leadup to the current rec plan. More recently surveying of parents and the public by the city has identified the need and has informed the current plan that goes as far as having a series of steps and timelines for making it happen. I’m concerned that without full coordination with the city in consistency with the well-thought-out recreation facilities master plan that we’re going to have a city full of disjoint pieces, some of them with overlap that will result in others being canabalized and inadvertently costing taxpayers a lot of money.

I see in promotion of this meeting on Facebook that a pic of the exact same facility in Souris is being used that the city has used in its rec plan. Please coordinate this project with the city and current elected representation to ensure consistency with the rec master plan. If the City prefers to not hand over control of planning, process and timelines to private citizens please respect that and ask how you can help. Without city blessing and involvement I will remain concerned and will find it hard to get excited knowing in the past the challenges we’ve had with competing visions trying to solve the same problem and what it means for the end result. Hopefully at the end of the day there's a way to put all interest and willpower together behind an outdoor water facility to make sure the best outcome for this city’s kiddos and it’s taxpayers.
Adam

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Adam
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Posts: 15663

Water park/pool
8/15/2021 at 10:26 AM

A week or so ago at our only pool was pretty telling. Packed, Lineup waiting to get in was at least ten deep with people willing to pay at least a bit to swim. Guessing Covid capacity limit factored in some, but there were a ton of people inside.

Had the chance to see the Souris pool for the first time this past week. What a great setup and the swimming lessons they run are top notch. That said if Brandon is going to go as far as planning and making the investment/doing the fundraising, we should have ambitions for at least a step bigger. For a community this size with this tax base a pool that size will IMO be too small to serve needs and it wouldn’t be long before we’re talking about needing a second one. That doesn’t mean that we’d be able to support Wisconsin Dells part 2, but somewhere there’s a sweet spot where the finances add up and we can at least have what a city this size with no lake/ocean should have.
Breaker12
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 263

Breaker12
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 263

yup
8/15/2021 at 12:39 PM

I agree with you Adam. For the size of Brandon and comparing Souris pool. We need to be insanely bigger to have some sort of consistent revenue for a waterpark. We even need to be bigger than Fun mountain near Winnipeg. The attraction of a Brandon water park actually needs to be an attraction for Manitoba.
bizzinga
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 134

bizzinga
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 134

water park
8/15/2021 at 3:31 PM

yes a water park would be great . but it should be in doors .
Niagra falls has a great year round one . maybe look at it. year round water park would be better for Brandon . an not one for 3 months of the year . have water slides , tube slides. wave pool . kids pool . floating pool .
if we need something like this then make it great an also attract the rule families to come in . a summer time thing wont work . there is lakes to play in . but a year round part will work .
Adam

Joined: Mar 2005
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Adam
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Posts: 15663

Water park
8/15/2021 at 4:34 PM

Breaker12 said "I agree with you Adam. For the size of Brandon and comparing Souris pool. We need to be insanely bigger to have some sort of consistent revenue for a waterpark. We even need to be bigger than Fun mountain near Winnipeg. The attraction of a Brandon water park actually needs to be an attraction for Manitoba. "
In theory as a user something that big sounds great but as you scale past something that serves community needs and into something that’s meant to (or needs to) draw from outside it needs to be seen as more of a business venture than just a community facility. There’s risk-reward that needs to be understood as far as what’s put in and what could come out short and long-term. In that case, how much taxpayer money are you putting up, what are the risks to taxpayer associated with cost overruns (or bad years or facility deterioration after the early honeymoon years)? What are the tangible benefits and do they match up with that investment? At what point do you need private dollars? If so what level of profitability is there going to need to be versus the break-even that a community facility probably plans for and what does that mean for user fees?

One concept that I could see working is Kinsmen Water Park in Prince Albert. Similar sized prairie city, city-run facility. Not too big, not too small…
https://www.tripadvisor.ca/Attraction_Review-g155041-d7696200-Reviews-Kinsmen_Water_Park-Prince_Albert_Saskatchewan.html#/media-atf/7696200/
As far as private and indoors, other angle I wonder about is Wayway/Gambler and any ambitions for each's land. Maybe opportunity to take a swing along the lines of Grand Forks Canad with a hotel/indoor water combo not far from the Trans Canada? But obviously with any private there has to be a profitable business case for it in this market since nobody's going to build on charity.
NoCares
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NoCares
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Jwb e r
8/15/2021 at 4:48 PM

bizzinga said "yes a water park would be great . but it should be in doors .
Niagra falls has a great year round one . maybe look at it. year round water park would be better for Brandon . an not one for 3 months of the year . have water slides , tube slides. wave pool . kids pool . floating pool .
if we need something like this then make it great an also attract the rule families to come in . a summer time thing wont work . there is lakes to play in . but a year round part will work . "
A year round indoor one would be great. I know many times in the winter, my spouses son asks if we can go to a hotel so he can swim in the pool, and I would really use the indoor water park compared to a lake during these heat waves!!