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Brandon close to Urban Reserve Deal

Brandon close to Urban Reserve Deal

my22cents
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 99

my22cents
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 99

service
5/17/2019 at 4:55 PM

fees for the business yes ,but the individual status that works there does not pay income tax on wages but uses services the city ,province, federal provide like , medical ,schools,roads, social programs , correct me if I'm wrong
Johnbisonbear
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 4183

Johnbisonbear
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 4183

**do better**
5/17/2019 at 9:38 PM

GetRec'd said "These threads always do well to disappoint me. A lot of people getting defensive about something they understand almost nothing about because they have decided that if it benefits the Indigenous community, it must not be good for anyone else...for /some/ reason.

Look, the reality is that development in the city is good for the city. Development of any kind necessarily means economic impact, and that always extends beyond the confines of the business/location.

Anything that creates jobs, brings tourism, enhances business or helps strengthen the Indigenous community, I'm for. Whether or not, as some have said, I get cheaper gas or smokes (which just stinks of negative stereotypes) is really a moot point if your ability to care extends beyond yourself.

There aren't enough opportunities out there and one being created for your neighbor is something to celebrate, not be scared of.

Man. As for the guy commenting on "new Canadians" or however he put it, do better. "
I think you need to read previous posts to get the gist of what I said before you slag me off alright?
anna_p
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 220

anna_p
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 220

You
5/17/2019 at 10:20 PM

GetRec'd said "These threads always do well to disappoint me. A lot of people getting defensive about something they understand almost nothing about because they have decided that if it benefits the Indigenous community, it must not be good for anyone else...for /some/ reason.

Look, the reality is that development in the city is good for the city. Development of any kind necessarily means economic impact, and that always extends beyond the confines of the business/location.

Anything that creates jobs, brings tourism, enhances business or helps strengthen the Indigenous community, I'm for. Whether or not, as some have said, I get cheaper gas or smokes (which just stinks of negative stereotypes) is really a moot point if your ability to care extends beyond yourself.

There aren't enough opportunities out there and one being created for your neighbor is something to celebrate, not be scared of.

Man. As for the guy commenting on "new Canadians" or however he put it, do better. "
I completely appreciate. Thank you for being the type of human you are. Sincerely
Adam

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 15663

Adam
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 15663

Gaming centre
5/18/2019 at 7:23 AM

The building beside the hotel was unlabelled at the groundbreaking and it’s not labelled on the billboard at the site but there was reference in the press release to an entertainment centre. Now the rendering used in the Sun today labels it as a Gaming Centre. The most recent plebiscite was 2008, 11 years ago, where 57% voted ‘no’ to a casino.
Not clear how casino-like of a facility that might be and what process might lead to the Gaming Centre portion of the development but it sounds like the gas bar and retail spaces are to be developed first.
vegimite
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 686

vegimite
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 686

Clare avenue
5/18/2019 at 7:30 AM

Bearing in mind this new development, which presumably will increase traffic at the junction with 18th St, is it not more imperative to now build the roundabout at this junction rather than at Breacrest?
Hopefully town have taken this development into consideration when making their plans.
RantsFromAfar
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 283

RantsFromAfar
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 283

****
5/18/2019 at 9:24 AM

Adam said "
The building beside the hotel was unlabelled at the groundbreaking and it’s not labelled on the billboard at the site but there was reference in the press release to an entertainment centre. Now the rendering used in the Sun today labels it as a Gaming Centre. The most recent plebiscite was 2008, 11 years ago, where 57% voted ‘no’ to a casino.
Not clear how casino-like of a facility that might be and what process might lead to the Gaming Centre portion of the development but it sounds like the gas bar and retail spaces are to be developed first.
"
Do I get to say "I told you so" now to the people that voted "NO" because they didn't want an urban reserve? I remember that plebiscite, and I voted yes, not because I was pro-casino, but because I knew that Brandon would eventually end up with an urban reserve because the population of Brandon didn't actually get a say. It did nothing other than foster distrust and resentment.

The establishment of an urban reserve is an intergovernmental process between the federal government and the involved band or bands. The City of Brandon and its citizens never had any legal say, and the 2002 and 2008 plebiscites were a useless exercise.

If you drive past the Petro-Canada near Polo-Park here in Winnipeg, you'd never know it was an urban reserve. The Kapyong barracks on Kenaston will soon enter reserve status, and I'm looking forward to the economic activity that will come with it.

Frankly, I hope there is a casino, not that I'll ever go. At least it will finally be in the right location. The Sand Hills location was always an insane proposition.
Dave Geo
Joined: This month
Posts: 170

Dave Geo
Joined: This month
Posts: 170

Interesting
5/18/2019 at 9:30 AM

http://www.brandon.ca/images/pdf/council/City_of_Brandon_-_Gambler_First_Nation_MDSA_Frequently_Asked_Questions.pdf
artsylikes
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 168

artsylikes
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 168

GetRec’d well said!!
5/18/2019 at 11:56 AM

It is unfortunate that so many on this discussion are so prepared to knock down an urban reserve based on the name alone. Even more alarming or even embarrassing is the fact that the negative responses show exactly the kind of person you are! Time to do some research and educate yourselves...seriously!

Welcome Gambler First Nation and congrats on your new prosperous venture!
JustASoul
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 356

JustASoul
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 356

My thought
5/18/2019 at 12:12 PM

While I, myself, don't feel I have enough knowledge to really be for or against this project, I don't think it is fair to assess that everyone against it is a bad person or uneducated.
Adam

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 15663

Adam
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 15663

Gaming Centre
5/18/2019 at 2:29 PM

I've been told by Economic Development Brandon that they mistakeningly provided an old rendering to both the Sun and CBC which contained the Gaming Centre reference/labelling. They've asked for corrections to be published.

The presence of that old rendering would seem to speak to a Gaming Centre having at the least been considered somewhere along in the process, whether or not its currently on the table. The words "gaming centre" don't give a ton to go off of, but from the link Dave Geo posted above a casino is not a permitted use in the agreement signed on the land. There is reference to an amusement parlour being an option, that being defined to possibly include "VLTS/gaming machines and a bingo hall, subject to any provincial licensing."

A representative of the development has told me this afternoon that Gambler First Nation is still reviewing options for the entertainment centre portion of the development along with potential hotel partners and that usage is not yet 100% defined.
I’ll be clear... In 2008 I voted Yes to a casino, not because I would probably ever use one myself but because I didn't see myself as someone that should stand in the way of one for those that wanted one. I'd never blindly say yes to something without knowing details behind it, but I'd say there's a better chance than not that I'd not un-yes it if brought up again. I hope the business park and partnership are a success, I like the win-win possibilities... but if there ends up being a significant gaming component in consideration I hope that based on the 57% 'No' vote in 2008 there ends up being some form of meaningful public consultation component before concrete commitments are made. Everyone involved should have an interest in feeling confident that the public has been involved in the process.
Edited by Adam, 2019-05-18 15:05:41
Adam

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 15663

Adam
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 15663

Sun story
5/18/2019 at 5:21 PM

Sun has done an online story late this afternoon (non paywall, link below) that follows up on questions surrounding the rendering that they were provided. Both Mayor and Economic Development say that a casino was never on the table with the latter saying that the rendering with "Gaming centre" on it was from very early in the planning process:
https://www.brandonsun.com/local/Casino-never-discussed-with-city-mayor-says-510120141.html
Dave Geo
Joined: This month
Posts: 170

Dave Geo
Joined: This month
Posts: 170

casino and gambling has been on the table
5/21/2019 at 5:57 AM

http://www.brandon.ca/images/pdf/council/City_of_Brandon_-_Gambler_First_Nation_MDSA_Frequently_Asked_Questions.pdf

Q9. Does this mean Gambler First Nation could build a casino on the land?
A9. As per the City of Brandon Zoning By-law, a casino (which includes table wagering games) is not a
permitted use for CG and CAR land and has not been included as a permitted use in the Agreement with
Gambler First Nation. An amusement parlour is a permitted recreational use in the CAR district in the same
way it is permitted for any other CAR zoned lands in Brandon. An amusement parlour may include
VLTS/gaming machines and a bingo hall, subject to any provincial licensing.
JackAzz
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1436

JackAzz
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1436

Something doesn't add up
5/22/2019 at 4:20 AM

Either the city or the band isn't being truthful. The band obviously have some kind of gaming centre in mind, the artist didn't just stick that in there on a whim. And the city obviously saw the drawing that had the gaming centre labelled on it, who believes that they just didn't notice it or didn't ask any questions about it? Something stinks.
theoldgunner
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 666

theoldgunner
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 666

agreed
5/22/2019 at 8:00 AM

I certainly agree with that statement- it’s hard to believe that all those people didn’t notice the error. No doubt lots of eyes looked at it.

The crux of the issue is definitions. To some people a gaming centre = casino.
Dave Geo
Joined: This month
Posts: 170

Dave Geo
Joined: This month
Posts: 170

More Information
5/22/2019 at 8:48 AM

http://www.brandon.ca/images/pdf/council/FN_UrbanDevelopmentAreas_PublicInfo.pdf
Johnbisonbear
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 4183

Johnbisonbear
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 4183

i have heard that
5/22/2019 at 8:57 AM

JackAzz said "Either the city or the band isn't being truthful. The band obviously have some kind of gaming centre in mind, the artist didn't just stick that in there on a whim. And the city obviously saw the drawing that had the gaming centre labelled on it, who believes that they just didn't notice it or didn't ask any questions about it? Something stinks. "
GFN will be having VLTs so maybe that's what 'gaming centre' will be at this location. People are making this casino issue to be something it's not nor ever will be.
Sioux Valley has a gaming centre, it's not a casino.

Let's stop talking casino at this new site development, it only leads people to speculate!
Jordanical
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 44

Jordanical
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 44

It's a Casino
5/22/2019 at 10:31 AM

Tacking on a few anachronistic criteria and saying it isn't a casino is the same as saying a duck isn't a duck because this one only has 29500 feathers and ducks have 30000.

At the very least playing the semantic game is disingenuous and we both know that when people voted, repeatedly, against a casino they were envisioning banks of VLTs and not baccarat and texas hold 'em.

Either the First Nation told the city of their plans and the city decided it would be easiest if no one knew until the basic deal was set in stone or the First Nation hid their intentions because it would be easiest if no one knew until the basic deal was set in stone.

It seems to me like it is a coin flip as to who is currently lying since both have a lot to gain from this deal going through, but I'm inclined to think the city knew full well and hid it.

That, to me, is the important thing. If the reserve lied to the city then that undercuts the whole deal. If the city overtly hid unpopular information for self-interested reasons that goes to the heart of this council's integrity and trustworthiness. Against that the question of "gaming center vs casino" seems like a stupid and intentionally divisive distraction.

We should be finding out who lied to who about this and then hold them to account for it.
Pembina
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 84

Pembina
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 84

Money
5/22/2019 at 3:13 PM

Where is the money to come from to build all this infrastructure??? If they do not pay property taxes how much will the city charge them to provide sewer and water????

Edited by Pembina, 2019-05-22 15:16:55
Fishin Guy
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 6897

Fishin Guy
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 6897

....
5/22/2019 at 3:57 PM

Pembina said "Where is the money to come from to build all this infrastructure??? If they do not pay property taxes how much will the city charge them to provide sewer and water????

Edited by Pembina, 2019-05-22 15:16:55"
Like any other development in Brandon the infrastructure is paid for by the developer. Chances are like the Casino money is borrowed from a lender and paid back. I would hope the city is charging a respectable amount comparable to any other business development in the city.
ronfay
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 654

ronfay
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 654

Taxes
5/22/2019 at 6:50 PM

Answers to the questions about property taxes are covered already in this thread. Fact: urban reserves pay the same amount to the city as they would if it was a standard development, but the payments are called "in lieu" payments instead.
Jordanical
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 44

Jordanical
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 44

Yeah, That's Exactly What I Think
5/23/2019 at 5:40 AM

I also consider a lone cow in a field to be a herd and a couple of pigeons to be a flock.

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/casino

"A public room or building where gambling games are where played."

The addition of "table based games" to the province's definition of casino was added in order to allow bars and restaurants to have VLT's without having to get a casino license and possibly zoning permission.

I don't think many people would think of a room in a restaurant with 5 or 10 machines a casino (though it does technically fit). I do think most people would consider a place, designed solely for gambling, with 50 or 100 machines a casino.

I like to use words in the same way that the vast majority of other people do. I find it aids communication. I'm funny that way
Dave Geo
Joined: This month
Posts: 170

Dave Geo
Joined: This month
Posts: 170

what does the future hold
5/23/2019 at 5:49 AM

http://scoinc.mb.ca/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Indigenous-Economy-Chapter-4.pdf
On page 20 it talks about some Urban Reserve 's
starting with a few VLT's and then expansions in 5 years to become a gaming center.
Iceman69
Joined: This month
Posts: 513

Iceman69
Joined: This month
Posts: 513

no
5/23/2019 at 7:59 AM

dont see what ppls beef is with the gaming centre. The rest of the development is a shadow to the gaming centre. Ppl need to relax!!
Bass-ic
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 217

Bass-ic
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 217

Semantics is all..
5/23/2019 at 3:33 PM

..it is:

gam·ing house
noun: gaming house; plural noun: gaming houses
a public building where gambling games are played; a casino.

It is what it is, what it will be, it will be.
Cory KIBILAE

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 781

Cory KIBILAE
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 781

Ssdd
5/24/2019 at 2:58 PM

First, the results of the non-binding vote back then is used out of context.
Less then half of the eligible voters voted and just over half of them were opposed.
About 26% actual opposition?
The rest voted yes or just didn't care.

I have a point and I'll use the Corral Centre and Target to help make it.
Corral Centre...has what I need and that opinion is shared by many.
The location of many non-locally owned businesses selling their wares and services.
Apparently doing quite well.

Target...remember that store?
I was excited, initially, about not having to travel to the US to buy their wares.
Except, they didn't meet that expectation.
A great many people were not very pleased either.
Disappointment shall forever haunt Target's brief time in Canada.

The point is, everyone reading this humble post has the ultimate power over the success or failure of any business in Brandon.
You don't shop there.
You don't utilize their services.
It will go away.

Don't pretend non-local ownership is the issue, Wal-mart and the many other foreign-owned chains contradict that.
Don't pretend a Casino is the issue when gambling is all over the city and surrounding area.
Don't pretend "zoning" or any other by-law is the issue when they've all been amended before.
I don't have to post what the real issue is.

But, I would be against Gambler FN operating anything resembling a Casino on that urban rez.
Sioux Valley was wronged and they deserve the first shot at a Casino in Brandon.