Discussions

don, yes i do agree that sometimes laws dont always follow common sense but they are usually there for a reason.  
 
example, pulling over stop on the shoulder is legal (so technically a slower vehicle should pull to a stop to let people pass) but many drive on the shoulder, personally i dont find that an issue if its a short term(but it is ticketable) but the law says that you canNOT travel on the shoulder (im summarizing, lol)because if you were to use a paved or unpaved shoulder as a lane you may encounter or make dangerous road issues, so reality is traveling on the shoulder sometimes makes sense but laws dont allow for us to make that call, sure rcmp can use their judgment and many many do so well, so us drivers continue to use our common sense, unfortunately many of us have different ideas of what common sense dictates so not following the actual laws sometimes makes us frustrated like we see in the posts, what is too far is really up for debate or up to an officer to decide  
 
why there is conflict over the HTA and passing on the left,to be honest, HTA has some parts that are really not as clear as they should be.  
 
I have talked to 3 different mpi people and none of them could give a straight answer after discussing it for days so, because it makes sense and i know most rcmp wouldn't issue a ticket i choose to interpret the HTA part that says you can pass on the right IF someone is turning left. However it also says traveling on the shoulder is illegal but whos to say at an intersection where is the "legal" road way ends? it would be easier to draw a pic but when you have two intersecting roads all of the pavement (or gravel if one is gravel) is a legal roadway, thus at that point not a shoulder, so in my interpretation passing at an intersection is legal IF someone is turning left, all other times using the shoulder to travel in is illegal but sometimes still makes sense....clear as mud :D

when there were two speed limit signs. One for maximum speed and one for minimum speed. The minimum speed limit signs disappeared when we went to the metric system due to the cost of replacing the signage. Note I was living in Ontario at the time. But I don't think the law ever went away. You can get a fine by going too slow on the highway. It's called impeding the flow of traffic and is just as dangerous as speeding. There is an unwritten rule that police will follow due to discrepancy's in speedometers that 10km above or below is acceptable variation of speed from the posted speed . using common sense when driving is the best way. It is better to wait for the car going 100km an hour to pass than hoping it can slow down to your speed when turning on to the road ahead of it. drive to your comfort. if you are not comfortable driving the posted speeds maybe you should rethink about driving on the highway. Know one has the right to drive it is a privilege. as we get older our abilities diminish and we are the only ones who will know when it's time to maybe stay off the highways.

From what I''ve found in searches on minimum and maximin speeds the difference seems to be in the 25 % range, in a way I find that sort of excessive, and maybe should be narrowed up a bit. As for comfortable driving speeds for myself, gravel roads are 90+ under the right conditions, hiway speeds 110+ also under proper driving conditions. As for entering onto the hiway it is, if approaching traffic is 1/4 mile away it''s a no go, 1/4-3/8 mile out is what I''m most comfortable with when driving the car or 3/4 ton. The biggest problem today, is there is a lack of enforcement on many hiways due to budget cuts on the RCMP, this has led to speeds that at times greatly exceed the speed limits. One can no longer assume that approaching traffic is doing the speed limit. When a vehicle passes you while driving at the speed limit, and then gains well over a 1/4 mile on you in the next mile, it throws some ideas of safe driving out the window. If an approaching vehicle is a half mile out when you are entering a hiway, there is no way they should be passing you in the first 1/4 mile you are on the hiway.  
Should also add that my rate of acceleration, up to the speed limit, is likely in the 10-12 second range  
 
Edited by don brown, 2017-03-12 08:24:34

Traveling through several states I noticed that in many places, they post that if you are driving below a certain speed, you should have your hazard lights on.  
Many long haul truckers have their hazards on as they pull out onto the highway until they get to a safe highway speed. I wish that Manitoba would put that into place for all drivers. If you wish to drive say 30 km below the limit on highway, you must have your hazards on. Those lights are very noticeable and gives good warning to those coming up from behind.

I am wondering if a driver can still be charged and fined for driving to slow under the posted speed limit. There use to be a television show called This Is The Law and one of the questions was'which is the only province in Canada that you can be charged and fined in for driving to slow below the posted speed!. Now this is many years ago but I wonder if the law is still valid?

The answer for the above This Is The Law question was Manitoba.

but, have you ever noticed the person that is driving the slower moving vehicle? The ones that I've seen quite often fit into two categories: a) young, therefore inexperienced in 2 way traffic moving faster than 50kph or b)older, (and yes we'll get there too),who seem a little more cautious on 2 lane roads. As #1A is the main direct route into Brandon that people travel, it does make sense that we will encounter one of these two groups. We have all been the young one and if we're lucky we will become one of the older ones. Pray that other drivers will have patience with you and your driving skills as you age.

Don,  
 
I didnt find your post snotty, if you meant it to be i missed it lol  
 
as far as travel i meant to look up the definition but didnt get to it, its an interesting POV. Personally i believe traveling on the shoulder is going more then a few vehicle lengths, but id have to see what HTA says

!. said "it's a maximum posted speed. Says right on the sign. They're not the ones causing accidents. Give your head a shake. Everyone knows this. "

Except to drive slower would cause an obstruction of traffic.  
 
Yes, I understand that this is not the Autobaun, but when you drive slowly and obstruct traffic, you are actually breaking the Highway Traffic Act and liable for a ticket.  
 
References:  
 
Manitoba Highway Traffic Act Sec. 100 (4)  
Where the driver of a motor vehicle is driving at such a slow speed that he is impeding or blocking the normal and reasonable flow of traffic or is driving at a rate less than the minimum fixed under subsection (1), a peace officer may require him to increase his rate of speed or to remove the vehicle from the highway: and  
 
Manitoba Highway Trafic Act Sec. 177 (1)  
177(1)  
No person shall drive a motor vehicle at such a slow speed as to impede or block the normal and reasonable flow of traffic except when it is necessary to do so for safe operation or to comply with this Part.  
 
[b] ergo [/b] if the person has no reason to be driving slow on the road, that would make [b] them [/b] at fault, not the driver moving at the posted speed limit.  
 
(http://web2.gov.mb.ca/laws/statutes/ccsm/h060e.php )  
 
 
 
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I am really glad that we have the RCMP as well as other police forces to look after the enforcement of the laws regaurding traffic. I read the link posted about speeds on the road, and the first thing that came to mind was Philadelphia Lawyer. A Philadelphia lawyer goes to great detail to cover every aspect when writing a contract or a law, and sometimes leaves the subject open to so much interpretation.  
In essence the law reads, do not drive so slow that you impede traffic unless you are doing it to operate your vehicle in a safe way.  
If we went back to the opening comment it was about operating at 90 in a 100 speed zone.  
Here is something to think about. A lot of vehicles come with those dummy tires, or donuts, or what ever you want to call them, those tires are made for a greatly reduced speed, but the way the law is written, you could travel at a greatly reduced speed because it is the safe way to drive with that tire on. On a really windy day would it be legal to travel at a reduced speed because the wind may bounce your car around, or at night time, where there could be the hazard of wildlife.  
Sure glad we have police forces to look after such things.  
 
Edited by don brown, 2017-03-13 22:05:29

don brown said "The idea is simple, but understanding seems to be complex. I believe in the three C''''s of defensive driving, and use it in daily driving, especially the courtesy part, but far to often acts of courtesy seem to be misunderstood . When pulling onto a hiway I look at it as a right hand turn on a red light, if traffic is coming and there is time to make the turn and get safely on the shoulder I do so. I''''m not sure what it is about a vehicle being on the shoulder that seem to confuse many drivers but it seem to have that effect. At times I wonder if people pay attention to the brake and signal lights of other vehicles, once on the shoulder I usually put on the 4 way flashers, this means that I am not moving at traffic speed and feel free to pass, once it is clear to get from the shoulder to the pavement I will signal my intention to do so. This way of driving seems to confuse a lot of drivers, and they slow down an refuse to pass, same seems to apply when going less than the speed limit, and taking to the shoulder to let people by.   Mirrors and signal lights are on vehicles for a reason, don''''t just stare ahead and watch the road but check your mirrors and watch the signal lights of vehicles, and apply care, caution and courtesy.     Edited by don brown, 2017-03-11 07:10:47"

Maybe people are hesitant because travelling on the shoulder is ILLEGAL!! having 3 vehicles meeting at a high rate of speed could lead to disastrous results! DO NOT travel on the shoulder, even if it's paved.  
 
SMH

I guess I can expect many tickets for traveling on the shoulder. If traveling down the highway and needing to make a left hand turn across oncoming traffic I try and be polite by finding a chance to cut across the highway and travel the shoulder a short few 100 meters to the turn off. When traveling and I cannot keep speed of traffic I will (if paved wide shoulders) pull over and let traffic pass then move back into the lane. I did this all the time out in Alberta with no issues or tickets. Man you mention the shoulders in Manitoba and now the highway traffic act and legal jargon is spewed. Say someone is going to slow all of a sudden slammed with what is the rush....really doing the speed limit is in a hurry? If people's minds are not focused on driving that they need to do 10, 20, 30 km/hr under the speed limit well then maybe they shouldn't be driving if not focused. Maybe that guy in a hurry ran out of diapers in the blizzard and was rushing to get them.

Fishin Guy said "I guess I can expect many tickets for traveling on the shoulder. If traveling down the highway and needing to make a left hand turn across oncoming traffic I try and be polite by finding a chance to cut across the highway and travel the shoulder a short few 100 meters to the turn off. When traveling and I cannot keep speed of traffic I will (if paved wide shoulders) pull over and let traffic pass then move back into the lane. I did this all the time out in Alberta with no issues or tickets. Man you mention the shoulders in Manitoba and now the highway traffic act and legal jargon is spewed. Say someone is going to slow all of a sudden slammed with what is the rush....really doing the speed limit is in a hurry? If people's minds are not focused on driving that they need to do 10, 20, 30 km/hr under the speed limit well then maybe they shouldn't be driving if not focused. Maybe that guy in a hurry ran out of diapers in the blizzard and was rushing to get them. "

When traveling on the highway and needing to make a left hand turn you cross traffic and travel on the shoulder facing on coming traffic???? Wow. I'm surprised you are still alive. I hope I never meet you on the highway you clearly have no idea how to drive or of traffic laws. I give you credit for trying to be polite but being polite should never be done unsafely.

RT Holdings said "    Fishin Guy said "I guess I can expect many tickets for traveling on the shoulder. If traveling down the highway and needing to make a left hand turn across oncoming traffic I try and be polite by finding a chance to cut across the highway and travel the shoulder a short few 100 meters to the turn off. When traveling and I cannot keep speed of traffic I will (if paved wide shoulders) pull over and let traffic pass then move back into the lane. I did this all the time out in Alberta with no issues or tickets. Man you mention the shoulders in Manitoba and now the highway traffic act and legal jargon is spewed. Say someone is going to slow all of a sudden slammed with what is the rush....really doing the speed limit is in a hurry? If people's minds are not focused on driving that they need to do 10, 20, 30 km/hr under the speed limit well then maybe they shouldn't be driving if not focused. Maybe that guy in a hurry ran out of diapers in the blizzard and was rushing to get them. " When traveling on the highway and needing to make a left hand turn you cross traffic and travel on the shoulder facing on coming traffic???? Wow. I'm surprised you are still alive. I hope I never meet you on the highway you clearly have no idea how to drive or of traffic laws. I give you credit for trying to be polite but being polite should never be done unsafely. "

Hope I don't see you also if you cannot handle seeing a vehicle along the shoulder of a highway. I see this done more and more lately. Traffic doesn't slow down and have not heard of an accident yet. Nothing unsafe about it. Well I guess we can go over all the what ifs and I can counter with the what if it doesn't back and forth. Heck there may not even be oncoming traffic but just being polite by pulling over instead of slowing down traffic. I have seen more rear ends accidents from stopping traffic than I have driving on the shoulder.

My family lives just off the 1A as do a lot of people. I have on occasion been stuck behind someone doing 80 but it's a short drive so I am patient. However I have had quite a few very scary close calls of people driving far too fast, bring far to impatient, and just plain not paying attention. I always signal far in advance (not too far that people ignore but we'll enough to let others be aware), and slow so that I can make the turn safely. I have small children in my vehicle and have been almost slammed into, suicide passed, and even had to miss my turn due to people who don't slow down or get impatient. Maybe everyone should just drive with others in mind and be more focused on getting home safely (even 5 min later than anticipated ) than getting there fast.